<p>You hear so much about legacies, developmentals and athletes. Does anyone have a guess as to what percent of the class is left open for the applicant applying on the basis of academic merit? If you can, break it down by the ED and RD rounds.</p>
<p>Duke says they accept 50% of the incoming class based on merit.</p>
<p>As an approximation, after adjustment for URMs -which is a very large number at the elite colleges - 50% is not a bad guesstimate</p>
<p>However, most of the colleges keep the numbers either hidden or muddled enough - that no precise number can be really known</p>
<p>The latest articles say 40%.</p>
<p>Requirement: To keep rumors and assumptions off this thread, please post your sources after every statement.</p>
<p>So, bobby and karen, please validate your statements. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just asking for some proof to make everyone more at ease.</p>
<p>ex-duke president said 50…i trust him</p>
<p>The Price of Admission by Daniel Golden.</p>
<p>40%…that really sucks</p>
<p>Just think of everything that is a hook, and it gets downright scary. Legacies, recruited athletes, URMs, national champions of competitions, “developmental cases” (ie filthy filthy rich), celebrities, etc. 50% is almost comforting, as sad as that is.</p>
<p>Citation X,
I’m not sure what you consider a large number of URM’s. Most elite colleges probably have enrollment of about 7% African American. <a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/preview/autumn06preview.html[/url]”>A $100 Million Gift to Boost Enrollments of Underrepresented Students at Loyola University | The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. Not sure about latino enrollment, but I would guess it’s similar to African American. Native American enrollment is usually just about non existent.</p>
<p>Why would a college want unhooked applicants?</p>
<p>my info came from kcajgnaw’s post in the thread about asians being screwed in the admissions process. its a pretty good video, I would recommend it to people that don’t know a whole lot about current AA. <a href=“ABC News Videos - ABC News”>http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2625731</a></p>
<p>“Most elite colleges probably have enrollment of about 7% African American”</p>
<p>Actually it’s higher, in most years 9% of the entering classes at schools like Yale and Harvard are African-American. </p>
<p>Add to this (which you conveniently overlook) is another 6 to 8% of hispanic URMs and a small amount of native americans (approx 1%) </p>
<p>Bottom line is approx 1 in 6 students at the elites enter via URM status and they have (on an aggregate group basis) far lower objectively measurable stats than the typical accepted student.</p>
<p>Now as for the legacy issue, it turns out that legacies (as much as the pro-AA proponents love to talk about them) - have raw stats at the elites relative to the entering class that generally tend to be right in the norm - often better. </p>
<p>However it schools want to dump ANY advantage for legacies (e.g relative to to other applicants) and also drop race-based admissions - then that would be a net plus</p>
<p>Citation X,
If you read my post, you’ll note that I did not conveniently overlook latino enrollment. I said I did not know for sure what it was , but I thought it was similar to African American enrollment (about 7%).</p>
<p>7%, 50%, or 1%, it’s still a hook that takes away space from the proverbial “unhooked”. It’s also blatantly racist. But that’s for another time and place.</p>
<p>Not hard to get to 40% at least</p>
<p>17% for URMs
17% for legacies
4 % athletes
1% art and music
1% “development admits” (e.g parents millions or are celebrities)
(less than 1%) Professors children</p>
<p>URM’s on an aggregate basis will typically have SATs generally 200 points lower on the new scale - however we don’t know exact figures as the universities have tried to hide these numbers, but we do from know other sources such as from prior litigation (along with the discovery processes) that on the old scale - variations in the 150 point range were common</p>
<p>Bottom line is URM status would be like getting 150 to 200 points added to one’s SAT scores -based on the 2400 scale</p>
<p>“Development Admits” (while not higher in quantity) will sometimes be qualified or very close, however will often be well below norms -and this has been recently been made public in regards to Brown’s admission process</p>
<p>The legacies show little if any variation in the raw stats vs the norm for the entering class, although they do have a clear edge over a non-legacy (all things equal) competitive applicant. Most legacies still don’t get admitted at most of the elites, particularly the top 3. </p>
<p>Athletes no doubt have lower stats on average - however this of course would include in many cases others who might also be classified as URM.</p>
<p>Arts and Music probably around the same stats or close</p>
<p>“Citation X,
If you read my post, you’ll note that I did not conveniently overlook latino enrollment. I said I did not know for sure what it was , but I thought it was similar to African American enrollment (about 7%).”</p>
<p>yes, you did mention it, sorry about that</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then I’d have a 2450-2500!</p>
<p>But on a serious note, race based admissions kind of suck because they devalue the achievements of URMs–we end up lumped into the lower-than-average category in admissions, regardless of exceptions.</p>
<p>I have often wondered what the GPA spread would be like among URMs as well, given that an AP class A = 5 and a normal class A = 4; I would not be surprised to find that a wGPA calculated in the above manner would result in low numbers of URMs w/ wGPA >4.</p>
<p>“But on a serious note, race based admissions kind of suck because they devalue the achievements of URMs–we end up lumped into the lower-than-average category in admissions, regardless of exceptions.”</p>
<p>Since it is an “aggregate” number as I’ve stated, it is true that there will be many exceptions, and for those individuals the stigma or presumption of lowered standards - is of course very unfair. This is exactly for example why in California a number of decades back it was the Black Atty professional organizations of various kinds (among other groups), who were instrumental in shutting down the absurd idea of giving special extra points on the State of California bar exam to black applicants and certain other minorities - which would have resulted in effectively having two different bar exams for the same state: the standard exam and one with lower standards for various minorities</p>