<p>BBD, yes, I am aware that BArch programs require a commitment, much like BFA programs do. After all, I have a D in architecture too as you know. That D was not ready to commit to a BArch program at age 17 and so chose the BA path in her field. Thus, she was selecting the total university whereas D2 was selecting her program first in MT,and then if given options of acceptances, chose the overall university as part of the final decision. Many who are in MT are aware that very few of the BFA programs are located in very academically selective universities. My D’s school, Tisch, is one that is and that was one factor she liked about it (though never would have changed out of the BFA degree).</p>
<p>debrockman…thank you for the comment. I try to post respectfully. I think people can disagree. I certainly mean no attack on a member here. I thought I was answering her question as to where I knew information as she claimed to not have ever posted it and so I didn’t want to look as if I made it up and provided quotes to substantiate it and answer the query. I respect privacy and certainly did not reveal any personal information that the member herself did not provide publicly already on the forum.</p>
<p>busdriver - I ‘jumped’ on the poster because I think she’s downright wrong (and as soozie says, soozie is the one who referred back to older posts) and I hate to see a parent/child miss out on what could be the perfect match because some poster on here is basically saying your choices are either a top-notch LAC or your flagship school, or you’re wasting your money. It’s very presumptuous (assuming you know the values and priorities of anyone who might be reading this) and I find it offensive.</p>
<p>Like many posters here, I have committed quite a bit of time answering questions people have about the two schools my daughters have attended (many of it in PM form - in fact I have two PMs in my box right now from people waiting to hear from me about Muhlenberg) and to have someone blatantly come on here and say these two schools are not worth the paper the diploma is printed on, is offensive.</p>
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<p>Might not be true, Institutes are playing games too. For DD @MIT
Tuition increased by 3.67% from 2009 to 2010
but the dorm charges increased by 11.4%.
So a total change of 5.1%</p>
<p>“Saying that the parent with a “great income and no debt” CAN"T send their child to a top college is not fact.”</p>
<p>By virtue of the fact that here we are on this forum, I’d make the generalization that every single one of us parents care deeply about our children and their education, focusing like a laser beam on what is best for our precious children. Not every parent does that. And if you’re on the hook for 50K/year with a 100K/year income…that’s almost impossible.</p>
<p>Purely because a family is financially stable doesn’t mean that all is well. Having an income of a certain number XX doesn’t mean that the parents care about education, or that there aren’t alcohol/drug/mental illness/spousal abuse and hostility issues. Doesn’t mean that the parents aren’t preoccupied with their own problems, trying to fund their own retirements, dealing with medical issues, trying to start a business, support elderly parents or don’t think the children shouldn’t pay for it themselves, as they did.</p>
<p>My point is that the kids come out with the same degrees, the same education. And one student may have a huge pile of debt, and another comes out with none…with the same job prospects. Now people may try to game the system by quitting their jobs to lower their income, but I doubt many would do that. The problem is the cost of colleges. Not that the parents who make XX need to pay more, but the expense of education is ridiculous. It used to be that most people could easily work their way through college, with no support or loans. Very few can do that now.</p>
<p>^^^: But it’s a joke that a family earning $200K+ can’t afford $50K in college expenses.
Would I like MIT to fund DD’s education, sure I would be happy and I believe MIT surely can afford to make it free for everyone as OLIN but I can’t say that I’m unable to afford it.</p>
<p>I may choose not to pay and use the money for something else.</p>
<p>Busdriver (289):
Believe me, I know it is a hardship as I am living it every day and will be paying off two kids’ UG educations and one kid’s grad education for many years to come. I’m just saying that someone else said that well off kids are penalized and I don’t relate to that because kids with a lower income have parents who will also have a hardship paying their EFC too as it is all relative. They make less and have to pay less. As well, they also have to take out loans just like the family who makes $125,000 might have to do. Some are willing to do that and some are not. Never said it was easy! :D</p>
<p>POIH…I agree with you (even if I don’t agree with a lot of other posts you have on CC, LOL…which just goes to show that people can disagree respectfully).</p>
<p>Also, someone posted that they make a great income with no debt and ya know, if the $50K pricetag is hard to stomach or cough up, they can afford to borrow some to pay for such a college. If I can borrow it and make far less, they can too. It is a choice.</p>
<p>I think some folks are forgetting that the family who can choose to put a $25000/y cap on college has a whole heck of a lot more options than the poor family who can only manage $5000/y. So I don’t get really how poor people benefit from being poor.</p>
<p>“So I don’t get really how poor people benefit from being poor.”</p>
<p>I’m not really sure if anyone is saying that…beyond the fact that if you come from a family making less income, if you are intending upon attending an expensive private LAC that offers plenty of financial aid, you may get the education for a very low cost, in comparison to a kid who comes from a middle-upper class family, from which either the child or family will pay upwards of 200K. So in that situation, I suppose it does benefit some.</p>
<p>The op’s initial question was, “So, what do you all think? Will elite colleges soon become a place for only the wealthy and lower class, or do you imagine some solutions emerging in the near future?” That is a good question. If the middle/upper middle classes can’t stomach paying the ever increasing costs of an elite college, will they eventually become purely the bastion of the rich (who can easily afford it) and the poor (who don’t have to pay for it)?</p>
<p>Coupla things: ;)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>We are back to saying who can afford what, again, when the issue is honestly that the price of college is artificially inflated by the fact that banks will lend any amount for student loans since they are no risk for them. There is a reason I was able to put myself through college working…the cost was in line with what I, as a student, could afford. The aid that was given, back then, also covered the costs of a college education, imho. The class warfare distracts. Being in poverty is never an advantage, ever. Being middle class is no garuantee that college costs will be within reach. Borrowing is the “answer” these days and we have a class of kids leaving school in debt which is ultimately hurting our entire economy, right on down the line to major purchases like washing machines. It’s a bad model for prosperity.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not much of a one for the “gang-up” which happens on this board, but when somebody consistently prefaces every single post with, “I have two sons at Cornell and one at MIT,” and then disparages other poster’s childrens’s schools, it gets old. A little humility goes a long way in personal relationships, which is all I will say on the matter.</p></li>
<li><p>Even with all of this debt. What a great country we live in where we have so many academic options and ways to get an education, even if it isn’t always perfectly ideal. We are very blessed.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>It amazes me how many posts belittle high cost schools,and those who may choose to attend…rarely do you see a post saying a tertiary state school’s degree is worthless,or attending such a school is waste…reminds me of a real estate site I used to visit where many posts railed those who had large homes,nut rarely was there a post commenting /knocking on smaller homes…I see a touch of envy in these posts… I have always espoused do what you can afford,but buy the best you can afford…</p>
<p>There are certain niches where very few kids fall where it can be beneficial to the kid to have parents who don’t have the money. There are a number of such scenarios. If a very talented child who has the resume, grades and scores, gets into HPY and other schools that generously fund most if not all of the need with grants, that kid can go to such a school. His peer whose parents won’t fill out the financial aid information, have the financials so that the kid does not meet the school’s definition of need but can’t or won’t pay for college is out of luck, pure and simple.</p>
<p>I believe our EFC is around 40% of take-home income. I’d say that 20-25% (around 25-30K/year) of take-home income is the very top of MY comfort zone (no savings). We sent our first two kids to private colleges, one with merit aid, one without. Next 5 are going public/max merit aid. There are ways that we COULD do it, but we found that the sacrifices (lifestyle, stress, resentment) required are/would be too much for the whole family. It is not just the current income–the family’s whole financial history has to be considered (And there is no way of knowing that history for other families–unless they tell you all the details.) We intend to pay for each kid to go to college and graduate debt free. That is a lot more than our parents could do for us and we are happy to do it. But private college for everyone? It is more than we can handle.</p>
<p>If a poor person’s child can’t get into the few colleges that meet full need, which is unlikely for the vast majority of these kids, the vast majority are priced out of the vast majority of colleges. I will be scraping together the funds to pay what I suspect my efc will be in a couple of years. I’m predicting a few thousand dollars, like maybe $3500. I can’t go higher. Not unwilling to, but can’t. And there aren’t many colleges that are less than my EFC…my local community college is it if I don’t include books and fees. So while I do get the point of the OP’s question, I just wanted to say that poor people aren’t benefiting as much as it seems people think from this thread. In theory, sure. But not in reality. Maybe just like there is a difference of opinion on what wealthy is, there is also some about what poor is?</p>
<p>In the good old days, a young person with little family money could qualify for a Pell Grant, which at the time covered tuition at most state universities. A student could work to pay room and board. Today, a top-qualifying Pell Grant recipient probably gets a big enough grant to cover tuition in some states, but certainly not all.</p>
<p>Fortunately, for many of the young people who live in states that the Pell comes close to paying tuition, the state flagship is also well respected.</p>
<p>It’s unfortunate that this thread turned so ugly…
Higher ROI is necessary to justify higher prices. You can look at that in terms beyond the strictly monetary.
Where has anyone said that they do?</p>
<p>“I think some folks are forgetting that the family who can choose to put a $25000/y cap on college has a whole heck of a lot more options than the poor family who can only manage $5000/y.”</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say “poor” - middle income (which is around $52k) is more like it. I see more and more working “poor” families who can’t pay for community college.</p>
<p>(I think many folks on this list have demonstrated that they have very poor understandings of income structure in this country.) In NYC, the median family income is well under $60k - yes, in this “high cost area”.</p>
<p>If ROI was the deciding factor in ANY college choice ,why would anyone choose a major that historically doesn’t pay much??? Perhaps parents do it because they can afford to,and think it is a good choice,that’s why…sheez,why must Every decision be based on ROI???..buy the best you can afford,in any endeavor you encounter</p>
<p>
Did you read my post? “Higher ROI is necessary to justify higher prices. You can look at that in terms beyond the strictly monetary.”</p>
<p>Educational ROI, future and present quality of life ROI… these are harder to quantify, but still possible to consider.</p>
<p>BTW, “best” is subjective and is IMO not all that clearly correlated with price.</p>