<p>The overwhelming majority of Yalies couldn’t get in - their grades were not high enough in the prerequisite courses (and legacy or fencing or volunteer work in the Amazon won’t help in the least).</p>
<p>Classical Economics at its finest. Moving up and down the Demand and Supply Curves.</p>
<p>So far, everyone is happy.
eh, somewhat.</p>
<p>"hmm … people can live quite well in greater NY for $150,000 … most live on much less … 3togo (former resident of NYC suburb in NJ) "</p>
<p>-People can live on the streets and feel very happy. It all goes down how you feel, not statistics, not others’ perceptions. And feeling is the only relevent thing here, since family is spending based on how they feel about it, not what others think about it. Most families around me with incomes in $150-250k /year do NOT FEEL like spending $50k / year on UG tuition and what others think about it calling them super rich or whatever is not making them feel any different. This is the fact.
I know only one family who paid that much for one of their kids UG tuition in one of the Ivy’s. However, father is a lawyer and mother is also working full time in proffessional position, so I imagine that their income might be over $250. They also live in very cheap region of the country (not NYC). Results of them spending that much on UG were not impressive at all, since kid had trouble getting into Grad. School, graduating with high GPA from Ivy.
People tend to investigate what they are getting for their money. Maybe people with money tend to research a little more and not go with the flow.</p>
<p>“The top private universities were created for the elite classes who have only in the past 40 years or so begun to offer FA funding to bring in “diverse” low income kids. Why? To enrich the school’s culture? To bring a new spirit and energy to the mix of old money and entitlement? Or, perhaps, to deflect the growing PR nightmare that these ivy-type schools were, in effect, self-segregated, exclusive, educational private clubs.”</p>
<p>Or, because about 40 years ago when they started this trend, they could see the end of the Vietnam war and the draft and the projected decline in the traditional student age population and they realized that if they didn’t scare up students from other parts of the country they just might have trouble filling their classes.</p>
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<p>mini, I’m becoming a big fan of your contrary (but probably true) statements.</p>
<p>I think the point of this thread is there are a lot of ‘rich’ people who don’t feel that they are ‘rich enough’ to pay the high cost of attendance at the privates. These people have the money (and hence do not qualify for enough need based aid) but they have different ideas about what to do with the money. They are questioning the value of a full-pay private college vs a merit-aid public (or private). I think there is no one answer- every family needs to make its own decision based on resources and priorities.</p>
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<p>No. In my neck of the woods, the state flagships (and the directional state schools to a lesser extent) have already siphoned off the middle-to-upper-middle kids who have parents who make $150K and are willing to pay $25K but not $50K for a private school. There are still more than enough families who can pony up $50K that the privates are in no danger.</p>
<p>Look, were there any colleges in the top 40 (either uni or LAC list) who received <em>fewer</em> applications for the class of 2015 than the class of 2014? I wouldn’t think so (though I’m willing to be convinced by data to the contrary). On the contrary, it’s my impression that early decision – the province of the full-pays, to be honest – was up substantially at many schools.</p>
<p>Someone I know has an family income a bit over $60,000. They have a small inheritance which would not fully cover 2 childrens’ private college educations. Their EFC was around $35,000. They don’t have large retirement funds and their home equity is maybe $40,000. Private college just isn’t possible. Personally their EFC seems insane to me, if their inheritance amount was instead in retirement funds the EFC would be a different story. It seems to me a very strange system. Now I don’t agree with every financial decision this family has made ( and honestly who cares what I think), but they are priced out of even state schools with that EFC. Of course they can and are using up that inheritance, but what happens 20 years from now? I also think the family that makes $150,000 is frequently not in a position to pay $50,000+ plus very easily, especially if they have 2 or more children. It seems to me the true middle class doesn’t exist in relation to college costs.</p>
<p>Didn’t read through the whole thread, but I’ll say this in reply to the recent discussion–We put two kids through private schools, full pay until the last year, on an income well under 200K (and eventually under 100), while living in the North Jersey, NYC suburbs. So, it can be done, though I’ve long since accepted that we are considered an anomaly in CC world. But there it is.</p>
<p>We began saving for kids’ college educations even before they were born, when H was in medical school (earning no income) and I was making the grand sum of $27,000 per year (in the mid-eighties). Having said that, we were fortunate enough not to have student loans, as we were both full-pay for our parents, and able to “pass it on.” Nonetheless, we have lived below our means with the goal of being able to pay for college for a long, long time.</p>
<p>I’m surprised no one has mentioned the term that is very common in our area… The Donut Hole. This is the bracket where you do not qualify for FA, but writing a check for $200k minimum/child just isn’t feasible (or the combination of check writing & loans). You can argue all day long that these families are wealthy, making more than 95% of Americans. You can argue that they ‘should’ have saved, making the $200k+ a possibility. More often then you think for those in The Donut Hole this just isn’t reality.</p>
<p>These are not families that have vacation homes, traveled extensively, or spent unwisely. Very few sent their students to private schools. Cars are driven to 150k miles and are often bought used to begin with…for the most part because the commute to work is insane. Which brings me to the point of housing. The closer you live to work, the more expensive the housing. Affordable housing (which still tops out at $500k min) puts you about an hour out on a good day. Not everyone has the luxury of being in the same area long enough to have purchased their home 10 years ago when it was $200k. Some were unfortunate, moving here during the peak of market when homes were insanely expensive. Move to middle America you say? This is where their jobs are…the only place their jobs exist. Believe me, these people DREAM of the day they can ‘retire’ from their first career (their is no retirement in your 60’s), to find a job in a slower pace of life. It is a common conversation…where are you going when you ‘get out of here?’.</p>
<p>Don’t begin to think you can judge people by a single number and make a blanket statement about them. So, families making $150k should be able to write those checks and/or take on loans for 2-3 children for $200k each IF they have lived their lives according to your idea of what is acceptable. Did you account for helping to take care of an ailing parent? How about astronomical medical bills for a spouse or child…or both? Job loss requiring a move that resulted in loss of home equity. Depleted savings and/or debt to tackle results in many cases. Did these families not ‘plan’ well?</p>
<p>Families in this bracket generally are not complaining about sending their kids to the dreaded ‘state U’ as it’s called here (OMG if my kid doesn’t buck up he’ll have to go to state U!). The sad thing is we have three outstanding (and I do mean outstanding) state flagships. The average GPA for the class of 2014 was a 3.95-4.2. This leaves a lot of high achieving students that are not quite in the upper atmosphere jumping through hoops to find good alternatives that are affordable. Most find excellent options through merit aid in OOS public schools with solid Honors programs. What I don’t hear is complaining. What I am hearing here is absolutely amazing, and frankly insulting.</p>
<p>So, if you want to look at the W-2 and make a snap decision about that family, remember how you feel about the admissions office that does not read holistically. Our kids are much more then their stats. A family is much more then it’s salary. There is a history behind it, context that can not be understood without sitting down in someone’s family room and having a cup of coffee. You then begin to understand (hopefully), that the breaking point of $150k is about as idiotic as deciding admissions on GPA alone.</p>
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<p>Excellent point. I also like the analogy to the donut hole that is talked about in health care. But unlike health care, education at an expensive private college on full pay is not necessary for survival. If a good college education is all you want, you can still get it really cheaply at any number of low cost colleges, including community colleges. Good health care is not available cheaply anywhere. Not at private hospitals, not at public hospitals.</p>
<p>Blueiguana–the thing is, those things you list as possibilities, like health issues, taking care of parents, etc, affect people in every income level. Yes, some subset will always be affected by them, which may affect their possible school choices, but this will not be because they are in a “donut hole”. It can be true for everyone.</p>
<p>Also, you lose me with these 500K houses (minimum). There are very few areas where a house at that price is the minimum. How can that be, when the median income everywhere in the country is far, far less than 150K? What are the rest of the population living in; they have houses too. I have no doubt that there are folks in North Jersey who claim they can’t find a house under 500K–but what that means is that they can’t find a house they are *willing *to live in at that price–the houses are here (I *wish *I could sell mine for 200K, but there’s no way that’s gonna happen.)</p>
<p>So while I’ll agree that circumstances force some higher income families into particular choices, on the whole, spending 50K per year would still give the average 150K family a higher income than loads of other folks live on, folks who, on average, have *much *more constrained college choices.</p>
<p>Yes, you can get an education at a CC,but good is another question…I attended a CC,and the teachers were not very good…There is no way a CC can compare to a decent state school,let alone the flagship ,anyone that tells you that has a vested interest in saying so…and while they are inexpensive vis a vie other state schools,the day of reckoning is near,as county budgets are stretched and costs can only increase going foward</p>
<p>If you live in north jersey,particulary Bergen County,there are almost NO homes in 200k range</p>
<p>I am just amazed by how many different angles CCers could talk about money and college. All these thread comes to the same conclusion.</p>
<p>Each family’s situation and value are unique to that family. SOme are more fortunate or luckier than others. But there is not a right way or wrong way here.</p>
<p>I do find this statement from MD very interesting:
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<p>Very few could “choose” to go to Harvard. For most of applications, it is Harvard choose you. Unless you got acceptance letter in your hand, I don’t know how could one say Harvard was one of the option. We all know this - #1 in a HS does not garranttee an admission to Harvard or any other top elite schools.</p>
<p>3tog (#67), median household income in NYC includes a lot of single and retired people. The average for a family with 2-3 kids is probably a lot higher. The cost of living for a single in a studio or an apartment with a few roommates is a lot different than for a family. </p>
<p>It is ridiculous not to understand that $200K, while a lot of money, goes a lot farther in much of the south or the midwest than in the northeast, particularly the NYC suburbs. Many of us planned for college expenses that were high, but not the ridiculous level they are at now. Many of us, while making a decent salary now, had to pay off our own student loans and then try to save for a down payment and fund our retirements, without any family help. I know people whose income is lower, but who have parents (kid’s grandparents) that have made big contributions to the college funds or provided the down payment for the first home. Some anticipate a large inheritance. OTOH, there are many of us who know there will no inheritance coming and have no pensions, but hope to retire some day. </p>
<p>Also, child care is very expensive in this area. The FAFSA does not look at the fact that up to half of one’s take-home pay may be going to aftercare or a sitter. </p>
<p>Yes, it is possible to live somewhere in northern NJ on less than 100K per year, but not anywhere with high quality schools. Property taxes on a relatively modest home are close to $10K per year. Median household income in my town is above 75K, and that includes many retirees and some renters or folks just starting out in a career. I have been told that close to half of the voting age population in our town does not have school-aged children. The median income of families with school-aged children is likely much higher. </p>
<p>I am not whining, but agree with blueiguana that the FAFSA number does not always define a family’s ablity to pay. Yes, we live in a very nice area, although in one of the less nice homes. We do not take expensive vacations, but do go on vacation. We drive our cars into the ground, but do have 2 cars. We put braces on our kids’ teeth and pay for music lessons and travel teams. Our kids do not get cars at 17 like many of their friends. I am thankful for what we have worked so hard for. However, and my kids know this, we don’t have an extra $700,000 sitting around to self-fund three full-pay college experiences. </p>
<p>My oldest had good enough stats to get very nice merit aid at a good school. While not his first choice (mostly due to location), he is very happy. My second one is not as strong of a student and had been accepted to our state flagship and waiting to hear about admission and, most importantly, money from some other schools. He is well aware that finances will play a big role in where he ends up. While I believe he might do better in a smaller, more nuturing schools than at Big State U, it may not be possible and he will have to make the best of it. The decision would have been much more difficult if he only got into a lesser quality state school. </p>
<p>As to the original question, the schools at the top will be able to continue to charge what they want to. The lesser privates already are having trouble and may continue to do so.</p>
<p>Actually, I wonder if some of those schools will start to award degrees in three years. Certainly, the winter break shortened and the end of school exteneded into June for freshman and sophmore years allowing kids to add another half-semester (maybe 2 classes instead of four)and still have a longish summer.</p>
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<p>Sample of one, and I recognize means nothing: My parents actually did pay for my college out of current income. They were decidedly working-class until my teenage years, when my dad did very well and vaulted to upper-middle class. But they had no savings, and they really did pay for NU out of their current / ongoing income. By the time my younger sister was college-ready, they had saved for her.</p>
<p>Of course, this was way back when it was in the four figures. My senior year, it went over $10,000 and we all thought it was just INSANE to pay that kind of money for college! LOL!</p>
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<p>I’d love to see the facts that back that statement up. What is more likely is that the overwhelming majority (or all) of the South Puget Sound Community College Nursing students couldn’t get into Yale.</p>
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<p>I think this is true. My son attends a “lesser school”. It is a private school with one of the lower sticker prices out there for a private school. This private school has attracted some amazing students who were accepted to schools that are much more difficult to get into (my son was also accepted to much higher ranked schools). They chose this school because of individual atttention, small class sizes, location, and cost (not necessarily in this order). That said, even with the relatively low sticker price for a private school, there are spaces open. My son knows of quite a few dorm rooms where beds are not filled and he knows of 2 students who did not return for the spring semester.</p>
<p>Vandy - maybe they can if they don’t live in high cost places like NYC. We are in the top 5 or 10 percent of national earners but couldn’t save for retirement and college and buy a car. The car lost. Groceries and housing costs alone come to more than $3,300 a month. It is really unfair that financial aid is not adjusted to reflect differing living costs.</p>