Audition Choices

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
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<p>There is a skill of just AUDITIONING itself. If you have barely ever auditioned in your life, it is harder to do well in an audition. If you have auditioned a lot, you have learned more about auditioning. It stands to reason that someone who is familiar with, skilled at and more comfortable with auditioning, has a greater chance of admission. Someone who has never auditioned, has no clue of appropriate material, etc. may be talented and show potential and may even get in, but the odds will favor the previous person. When they accept 2-9% at most programs, you want to increase the odds. </p>

<p>A musician trying to get into a music program is going to have a better chance after years of lessons, benchmarks in their region and state adjudications, etc. than simply someone who happens to play an instrument and wants to study it in college. This is a competitive process where even the MOST talented will be turned away from many programs. The idea is to increase your odds through preparation. One way to know if you are competitive is to have attained some benchmarks in a smaller talent pool regionally. It is not necessary but it helps to assess that. It isn’t the credits or awards you have obtained that get you in but it is what you have developed in terms of skill that got you to achieve those things. Those with such achievements WILL be in the talent pool. </p>

<p>I can assure you that kids get in from very small backgrounds. I live in a rural area. My D fared well in BFA admissions. We have no drama program at school and she had no acting classes. She has other friends from our region also in at top BFA programs. Her college roomie from our region whom she did theater with here, has been leads several times at Tisch. You can come from small beginnings and get into these programs. You don’t have to go to a summer intensive. You don’t have to win a major award. You don’t have to attend a performing arts high school (our state has none), but it surely helps to have training, show experience, audition experience, etc. The odds will increase if you do. The girl I mentioned from our region who goes to school with my D was a standout in this region. The kids who were not, did not get in. The kids I know from my state and from my D’s theater camp who attend BFA programs or have graduated from them, were all standouts in their home areas first.</p>

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<p>mamalu wrote : “(NYU rep) related that they receive 2000-2200 apps/auditions for the full drama program(all studios combined), and that 800-1000 of those are for CAP 21 as first or only studio request”
Wow! I am going to pass those stats along to an acquaintance who thinks that because NYU accepts “more” freshmen actors (including MTs) than do other programs, it’s “easy” to get in. That should put things in perspective …</p>

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<p>Mamalu…we cross posted but I very much agree with your post. I see this in my line of work. I have people come to me with their college list that is a very inappropriate list vis a vis their academic qualifications and often also their artistic qualifications. They picked schools simply that offered a BFA in MT and ones they had heard of. That is not how to pick a school. A lot is about fit. A lot is about academic and artistic qualifications. MANY are VERY unrealistic. I can tell off the bat that some who have Tisch on the list will NOT get in. They are NOT in the ballpark at all. Even those who ARE in the ballpark face difficult odds. But if you are not in the ballpark, it makes no sense to apply. One needs to find the RIGHT schools for THEM. </p>

<p>If need be, get others to assess and evaluate your academic qualifications and artistic ones and get honest feedback so that the list is appropriate and balanced. </p>

<p>Many don’t do this. Nobody should get ALL rejections. This is avoidable if you build an appropriate list that is balanced.</p>

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<p>Yes, NMR those numbers are daunting. And NYU auditions all over the country at different audition cities. They are looking for the best in the country. But, my question is just how many candidates are appropriate for this program based on artistic and academic requisite criterion? It will certainly cut down the pool of students who fit the stats there.</p>

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<p>NMR…I can’t begin to tell you the common misconception I have read on CC time and again is that a bigger program is easier to get into! It is irrelevant the size when it comes to odds of admission. It is the ADMIT rate (and the level of qualifications necessary to be admitted). I think for CAP21, in the past, the admit rate was between 6-8% or so. The talent pool at top programs, generally speaking, is also tougher odds than at certain other programs, even if they too have low admit rates. That has to also be considered in terms of the odds of admission.</p>

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<p>But Alfie, he was a beginner who couldn’t even take the time to read the audition instructions. His talent, or lack of talent, wasn’t the problem. If he had a great voice & had performed approprite songs with the required accompaniment, he would have been viewed very differently. His potential – assuming he had any – could have shown through.</p>

<p>Soosie, the NYU Dean wasn’t talking about kids who weren’t talented enough to stand out from the crowd in their local productions despite repeated auditions. She was talking about kids who did not focus exclusively (or much at all) on performing in h.s., yet had what it takes to succeed in their program. I’d draw an analogy to the Pittsburgh Steeler’s QB - Ben Roethlisberger. He’s the youngest QB ever to lead his team to a SuperBowl. But in h.s., he warmed the bench until the coach’s son graduated. Only then was he allowed to shine as a QB. Politics & nepotism can keep kids out of lead roles. Or family access to performing opportunities. Or academic or family responsibilities. Any number of things, or combination of issues, can work to keep a kid’s resume pretty light. I would hate to see a talented kid not even attempt this field becasue he felt far behind his peers before the auditions even started. According to the Dean, that’s not true at all.</p>

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<p>Know what would be helpful?? To have stats on how many of those 800 to 1000 CAP 21 applicants had academic stats that were in the ballpark for NYU admissions. (Or any of the schools that have high academic standards) That would be a true admit rate.</p>

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<p>SS…you are right that you can’t just go by casting. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes one’s high school has tons of talent making it harder to be cast. But casting is not the main thing here. I was talking of experience. </p>

<p>Also, put casting aside. For instance, in our state, you can audition for All States for chorus. That’s a benchmark. You can audition for the State Scholasrship for voice. That’s a benchmark. In other states, I have heard of Thespian awards and competitions, awards that are like Tony awards (different name) for high school theater, NATS, Cappies, and what not. There’s NFAA. And so on and so forth. There are some benchmarks that help you assess how you fare in a talent pool beyond your school even. If you attend a summer program, you can self assess among talented kids from around the country…not just in casting but simply in a class. </p>

<p>Lots of kids have potential with NO credits. They DO get in. I wasn’t emphasizing credits. I was emphasizing EXPERIENCE and Talent which you build up through training and other theater endeavors. </p>

<p>You mention kids who have not focused exclusivinly or much at on on performing prior to college. You dont’ have to focus on it exclusively but it stands to reason that someone who has devoted time to this field is going to increase their odds of getting in. For instance, I have a daughter who played two instruments her entire life. She made All States every year on clarinet and did the National Piano Auditions every year on piano. She was skilled at both. She would NEVER be admitted to a BM program on those instruments? Why? Because as much as she had achieved, she didn’t nearly devote the kind of time that those whom I know who have gone onto study instrumental music in college have for their music. Those kids, for instance, were in our state youth orchestra. Music was their MAIN thing. My D, on the other hand, while taking lessons on two instruments, being in concert band, select wind ensemble, jazz band, jazz theory, All States, Regionals, etc. could never do state orchestra or practice music that much each day because she was also in three varsity sports, several dance classes, student government, volunteer work and a job ,not to mention was taking the hardest course load possible and then some with top grades. There is no way she could have competed to be admitted to a college music program. I am sure of it. No problem as she wanted to major in architecture, LOL. But there is no question that those who were approrpriate and competitive candidates for good college music programs were the kids who focused on music and did it at the top levels such as our state youth orchestra, music intensives, etc. </p>

<p>Nobody said you have to ONLY do theater to get into a theater program. Like I said, our school doesn’t even HAVE a drama program! But my kid who is in a BFA program used to do sports for years and years (the kids in her BFA likely have no clue that my D was a ski racer, soccer player, figure skater and horseback rider for years and years), but by 13, in order to focuse more on performing arts, she did give up sports (I am not saying you HAVE to). Most of her activities all related to the arts at that point…voice lessons, school musicals and plays, chorus, piano lessons, guitar lessons, jazz band, jazz theory, ballet/pointe, jazz dance, tap dance, modern dance, hip hop dance, dance troupes, community theater, summer theater programs, etc. She was not only prepared to enter a college program in this field but she KNEW it was for her (not sure how you’d know you wanted to commit to an intensive like a BFA in MT without some immersion in it). </p>

<p>Again, you do not have to have played a lead back home. You don’t have ot have only done theater growing up. You dont have to go to a summer intensive. You dont’ have to have won any awards. You don’t have to have straight As. But the more experience you have, the more preparation, the more skill, the more commitment, the more achievement, the chances are enhanced. </p>

<p>I can tell you that now that my kid is IN a program, she is amongst very very talented kids who all had achieved quite a bit before they got there. Kids who are used to standing out no longer do. Getting cast is no easy feat when everyone is so good. </p>

<p>Yes, all had different access to opportunities before they got there. Some had performing arts high schools. My D only wishes our state had that. Some had drama programs at school. My kid had never had acting classes here. Some got to attend summer programs. Some did not. Many came from areas that had youth theater programs outside of school. We have NONE of that in my region. I meet kids from around the country in my work and the opportunities where they live are far greater than what my kid had access to. I meet kids who got to do these state thespian competitions and MT awards and really professional types of youth theater companies. So, you don’t have to have that. My kid didn’t. But it definitely helps to have SOME experience in theater, some training in acting, voice and dance, and some skill. The odds increase. It doesn’t matter the exact nature of it as kids have different opportunities where they live. But with very little background, the odds are tougher. Preparation can come in many forms. Those prepared are going to fare better overall. </p>

<p>Again, I am not saying you have to have a resume to get in. You don’t. You do have to have talent. Talent develops through training and experiences.</p>

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<p>At any school, there are kids who have no business applying when it is very clear they are not in the ballpark. It is one thing for a school to be a reach with low odds and another to apply to IMPOSSIBLE odds. There’s a difference. </p>

<p>There is no way to compute the admit rate the way you describe it. Every college will have students who apply who don’t have the academic qualifications to be admitted, let alone the talent to be remotely considered artistically. NYU is not the only one where this is true. I see people apply to Harvard to “see if I can get in.” I see kids apply to BFA schools that are not as hard academically as NYU…say Ithaca…who do not have academic stats remotely in the ballpark. You’d be amazed at how unrealistic some people are! For kids I work with, at least I can share and demonstrate how they are not qualified or what is a reach, far reach, match or what schools are appropriate and which are not. Most take that advice and radically revise the list with advisement. But for all those who get advising, there are many who don’t and many who have no clue. They simply make a list of schools that offer MT and ones they have heard of and that’s their list. It is no different at NYU than any other school. At any BFA school or college, there are those in the applicant pool who do not have the academics or artistic talent to get in. Then there are plenty who do but still won’t get in as the admit rate is so low and the talent pool is so high. Every college has some applicants they could skim off the pile on first glance.</p>

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<p>Whether you call it credits or experience or training or a full resume, this is not a guarantee of talent. Sure, it is more LIKELY that a kid with talent is getting positive reinforcement & pleasure in performing, and thus seeks out other opportunites, thus building a resume. But it’s not a sure thing. That’s why the Dean of NYU goes by the audition, not the resume. A good deal of community theater is absolute dreck (Waiting for Guffman, anyone?) You might presume that a kid without strong talent would realize that he might be best trying another field, but that’s not always the case. Of course self assessment is something every performer should practice, and benchmarks are helpful for that purpose. But not every talented kid has access to those benchmark programs. As for All-state music ensembles, often the serious musicians wouldn’t even bother because they are in preJulliard or similar programs & All-States is less impressive than their week-to-week program. </p>

<p>As for the true admit rate, at a school like NYU, where academic admission is seperate from talent admission, the admit rate certainly could be reported in this fashion: “Out of 1000 applicants, 35% were academically ineligible and 35% were denied on the basis of talent. Accounting for overlap in these two groups, of the remaining 50% (500) we offered admission to 85.”</p>

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<p>SS…A RESUME/CREDITS/experience/training…ARE NOT GUARANTEES OF TALENT…I AGREE! </p>

<p>I ALSO AGREE THAT NYU AND OTHER SCHOOLS GO BY THE AUDITION AND NOT THE RESUME! </p>

<p>My point is that in order to gain skills, talent, and readiness for a BFA admissions process, it helps to gain training and experience. I don’t mean it helps to have a good resume itself. The resume does not get you in, as you say. But to develop one’s talents, training and experience helps. I mean why even attend a BFA program? To gain training and experience to develop your talent! You don’t have to have all that to get in but you have to be able to demonstrate artistic skills and talent and potential to get in. In order to do that, it is helpful to have training and production experience, as well as audition experience. So, it doesn’t matter what you can document on the resume. They are not assessing the resume. But what got on the resume happened because you gained skills along the way. It is the experiences you had that matter in terms of how you can fare IN the audition, not on an evaluation of some resume. The experiences/training help you develop and give a good audition. Even if you never documented your experience and never handed in ANY resume…I am saying what went into those things on the resume is what got you to your current level of skill. The skill will be assessed. You have to do some things to develop it. There is raw talent of course. But experience and training will help. It won’t help because you can LIST it but it will help because you DID it. </p>

<p>I am not saying the credits matter. But doing theater helps you to learn. </p>

<p>And you are right…I have seen kids have leads in total dreck productions. So, on paper, it might be hard to discern the significance of the role. All production experience is not equal. Still, by even looking on paper, I can get a general sense of preparation and experience. It is not enough to go by and so a live audition is needed. However, when I see someone who won a Cappie award, a state thespian award, a state voice scholar, an NFAA award, a NATS award, or was a lead at a competitive summer program, I have some benchmarks that give me a clue as to their competitiveness. But a candidate does not NEED to have those things. They can be just as talented without those achievements. But when someone has those achievements, it gives them some idea if they can compete in a larger talent pool. You are right that not every kid has access to certain benchmark programs…like our state has no thespian awards, Cappies, or many of these other adjudicated things I hear of kids doing in other states. That’s just the way it is. We don’t have NATs, that I know of. We don’t have regional awards for school theater. We do have All States. We also have All State Scholarship adjudication for tops in the state. My kids were involved in that. In our state, top musicians DO participate as we have no Pre Juilliard type thing in my neck of the woods. We have excellent musicians here, however. Several from our little rural no name school have won the state scholarship award in either voice, instrumental, or jazz. These kids have all been competitive for BM programs for music or BFA for MT or Vocal Performance programs. This is different here than just getting into All States, which they ALSO did. That’s about all we have here. You live in NJ and there are far more “benchmark programs” …I know kids in NJ, for example, who have won NATS awards or Papermill Playhouse Rising Star awards and so on and so forth, that we don’t have. Here, just through attending public school, you can enter the All State Scholarship adjudication. Kids in some states or schools know all about NFAA. In my state and school…nobody enters this. I heard of it on CC! LOL. My kid entered and won an award. So, anyone has access to that but would have to have found out about it. Again, you do not have to win a single thing to get INTO a BFA program. But what you do need to do is to assess your competitiveness and readiness for these BFA programs. You can self assess with those whom you may know who have gone onto BFA programs and how you feel your skill sets compare or if you are involved in anything regionally or statewide, and fare well…it helps to know. If you happen to attend any programs out of state, you can see yourself amongst a wider talent pool. Not everyone does all that but in some capacity, needs to assess where they stand. They should have a voice teacher/coach and theater person give them an assessment of their appropriateness as a candidate, if that person is familiar with others who have gotten into BFA programs. </p>

<p>You mentioned “serious musicians”. I see “serious actors” the same. To get into a college music program, you better be darn right serious and practice a lot and get training, have performance experience, and be involved in some evaluative measures. Not so different for the aspiring thespian. Raw talent can get you so far. The chances increase for those who have developed some skills and experiences. Just having it as a hobby is not enough for these competitive programs. </p>

<p>All I can tell you is that those who I know IN BFA programs, DO have some training, some experiences, prior skills in singing/acting and usually dancing, and some achievements. My kid goes to school with these kids. The college is not judging their resume. But their backgrounds got them to a certain level that made them able to audition well. </p>

<p>On top of that, colleges do ask for a resume…while that doesn’t get you in, they are interested in your background. </p>

<p>As far as ‘true admit rate’…I disagree with you. A college could not report in the fashion you describe. NYU, even on the academic end of admissions, doesn’t go by just “number cut offs.” It is not like you have to have X SAT score and Y GPA and Z class rank and you are in or out. It is holistic and many factors emerge including the many essays and recs, extracurriculars, personal traits, rigor of courses, and so forth. It is not cut and dried “academically eligible” or not. For that matter, it is not “artistically eligible” or not either. Colleges are building a class. Even on the artistic end, kids are eligible but they want different types. There is not a black and white cut off. It is a very whole process with many factors. You are not “eligible” or “not eligible”. You are evaluated on many criteria. Also, NYU, unlike some BFA programs, is ONE process…it doesn’t have a separate academic admissions and a separate artistic admissions. I know some schools discussed on this forum have a bifuricated process with two separate admissions, where you can be accepted to the college but not the BFA (which happened to my D at Emerson). But you can’t be accepted to NYU and not the BFA and vice versa. It is one whole process and both areas factor in equally. </p>

<p>I have never seen any college report who was eligible for admissions and who was not. They report how many got admitted and how many did not. It is a given that at ANY college, there are applicants who are not in the ballpark who apply unrealistically.</p>

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<p>SS, I don’t think you’ll ever see your wish for a ‘true admit rate’, at NYU or at any other theatre program which considers both academics and the audition. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of any college reporting what percentage of their applicants are ‘academically ineligible’, for any program or major. Even if it were to be published, I’m not sure what purpose it would serve.</p>

<p>While there are certainly kids who are admitted who do not have long or detailed resumes, and not much experience, I imagine that this is a fairly small number. It’s true that the audition itself is more important for the artistic review than what is on the resume, but there is a reason that they request that each auditionee bring an artistic resume along with them to the audition. It isn’t a requirement for kids to have had leads in every show through h/s, nor is it required that they’ve trained since they were five, but a certain amount of training and experience will undoubtedly be beneficial in preparation for this process, not because it can go on the resume, but because it will make them better prepared for the audition.</p>

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<p>Absolutely agree with you AlwaysAMom…that’s the point…the training and experiences help one be prepared to give an audition that might get them in, as well as will prepare them for the BFA training. </p>

<p>Also, if I were an adcom, I’d want to see some level of commitment to this field because a BFA involves such an intense level of commitment and it is not appropriate for all people, even if they have talent. Someone who just dabbled a bit in theater and has an interest and has some raw talent, may not really be ready for the level of commitment or it would be hard to observe that. There are a lot of kids who land in BFA programs who have no clue what they are getting into and find during the first year, that it is not for them. A BFA program is not like a regular college experience. Often, those who are used to some level of a hectic intense schedule and training, academics, productions, etc. has a way to know if this is right for them. Even then, the BFA is even more intense than any intense HS schedule. Some try out a summer intensive to determine if this is the right path for them. If I saw someone with no experience and not that much commitment yet to the field, I’d wonder if they were ready for the immersion and understood what was involved and if their passion for this field was well developed. Many colleges have essays pertaining to why you want to go into this field, your goals, your background, your statement of purpose. There is a reason for that. How well you can articulate that matters. How in depth you have researched a program to determine fit and can articulate that also matters. I see HUGE differences among candidates in this regard. I deal with this every day at this time of year. Colleges have to determine not only talent, but if you can succeed in the intense BFA program and if it is a good fit for you. Even work ethic enters into it. You know, they do ask for resumes, recommendations, academics, and essays and interview you…for a reason. Talent matters. But lots of kids have it. There are other factors that enter into it. </p>

<p>Also, while I mentioned this before…I can tell you that the kids who fare well in auditions, are ones with some audition experience. It is a skill just to know how to audition. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Someone who has barely auditioned in their life will have a tougher time. They may even be more nervous as they are not used to it. So, again, experiences build you up…not so you can list them on a resume…but so you audition well and are well prepared for BFA programs once you get in. </p>

<p>I also think once you are in a program, you have to be in class with others and it helps if your peers are somewhat on a certain level though there will still be variations in skill. But for instance, say you danced your whole life. You likely would not benefit in the same way in a class with people who never had a dance class in their life. In an acting class, you are assigned scene partners. It helps to work with someone you can learn with who is in some remote balllpark of level of the class with you. In music theory type classes, if you have studied music extensively and someone can’t read music, your learning needs are going to differ greatly. While the skills and talent of my D’s peers in her program varies, there are enough other students on s similar level that she learns in the collaborative process and the classes are appropriate. I can tell you that most of the kids I know in her program DO have training, production experiences and achievements before they entered. It varies, but there are none that I know of who have done very little before they applied.</p>

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<p>Hey, what just a gosh darned minute! We worship Waiting for Guffman around these parts … and hey, even if Corky doesn’t make the best leading man for “Red, White and Blaine.” :)</p>

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<p>That was a great movie, wasn’t it? :slight_smile:
(it also is great acting to have to act out “bad acting”!)</p>

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<p>Susan, you are right: to be able to portray such over-the-top acting, those actors had to be good and were! Our personal favorite is Parker Posey’s rendition of “Teacher’s Pet” at the audition and the out-take of her performing her “Billy, it’s Susan” monologue, where she pulls the plug on his life support. Priceless, as is Ron and Sheila’s rendition of “Midnight at the Oasis.” (Anyone who hasn’t seen ‘Guffman’ owes themselves a trip to Blockbuster.) Our family is so addicted to that film that we regularly quote from the show. “Corky, we want you to live!!!”"</p>

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<p>My favorite: “You’re ■■■■■■■ people!”</p>

<p>[Waiting</a> for Guffman (1996) - Memorable quotes](<a href=“http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118111/quotes]Waiting”>Waiting for Guffman (1996) - Quotes - IMDb)</p>

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<p>Or just as funny: I hate you and your ASS face." (Sorry, CollegeMom, for the use of profanity. We should be excused, as we are merely quoting Mr. Guest and his partly-improved script …") For true, hardcore Guffman fans, there is actually a Facebook group titled “I hate you and your ass face.” (Oh another favorite: “I got off that boat with nothing but my dance belt and a tube of CHAPSTICK!”)</p>