<p>I have learned of a very fair amount of the varying situations pertaining to Twisted and the Spanish requirement for a very, very long while now. I do not think that anyone who knows of the backstory Twisted has presented in a very large amount of threads and postings is being mean by being blunt and trying to present another point of view at all. If anyone thinks that I am personally being a mean person than I am sorry, but someone really does need to present another point of view in some way, that is part of life and is truly not mean at all. </p>
<p>Have a nice day, JHS. And, Twisted, I wish you the best, but shucks, man!</p>
<p>Well, if it came to your having to get a BGS, I would hazard a guess that putting “BGS (major focus: political science)” on your resume would get you as far as “BA Political Science”. As you noted, neither degree “leads directly” to a specific job…</p>
<p>I now understand that Twisted has been writing about this problem in other threads that I haven’t read, so I guess I understand the frustration some of you feel. But it bugs me to see people writing things like this:</p>
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<p>Another point of view is fine, but that was written by someone who hasn’t bothered to look at what a BGS at Michigan entails, or thought about what it would mean to a student, in practical terms, to change degrees at an advanced stage. It is full of a wrong, and unhelpful, assumptions.</p>
<p>As someone else pointed out, Michigan’s BGS degree involves, essentially, three minors. You need 20 advanced-level credits (at generally 3 per course, sometimes 4) in three different areas, and of course to get those advanced-level credits you need to have taken the lower-level prerequisites for them. And no more than 20 credits from any department count. So Twisted would have one area under her belt (poli sci) and a start towards another (poli sci requires two advanced courses in some other cognate field). But that would leave her needing an extra 10+ advanced courses – 34 credits-- not including prerequisites she might have to take in order to take some of them. That’s not a small additional burden if it hasn’t been planned for. 34 credits is a full extra year of college, and that’s assuming you can get them all in.</p>
<p>There’s nothing at all wrong with the BGS degree itself. But there’s something wrong with telling a student who has essentially completed BA requirements to go back and satisfy a significantly different set of degree criteria.</p>
<p>As for the Spanish, unless I am mistaken Twisted is now completing what Michigan will count as her second semester of Spanish, not third. She says she got credit for three semesters at a community college, but obviously not at a level that Michigan accepted, or that let her pass a placement test even for avoiding first semester Spanish. My understanding is that she has taken two years of Spanish in CC with accommodations, for which she is receiving no credit, and one year at Michigan, with a lot of trouble. I assume she had exposure to it in high school, too. So when she is barely holding a C- taking Spanish I for the third time, and it’s interfering with her life, I tend to conclude that (a) she’s not just whining about it, there’s a real problem, and (b) she and her teachers are wasting a lot of time for no real educational value.</p>
<p>The OP has stated that she can’t learn a foreign language
The OP has stated that she can’t do math because of dyscalcia
The OP has stated that she has significant difficulties writing because of dysgraphia (nerve issues I believe)
The OP has stated that she can’t do sign lanuage due to a neuropathy (again, nerve issues)</p>
<p>I think at this point, any degree that the OP can achieve is a great accomplishment regardless of what it is in. Her challenges are huge and she should take great pride in graduating.</p>
<p>I really didn’t want this thread to become another LD argument, but apparently I do need to explain myself. I apologize for the length, unfortunately this is a complicated story and it seems no one will take me at my word without a detailed retelling of the whole story.</p>
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<p>I don’t understand comments about my attitude. I took loads of Spanish at another school with a more doable curriculum for me without a single complaint. I didn’t enjoy it at all, but I did it, like anyone else. I COULD do it there. It wasn’t any problem there, it was harder for me than others but I love a challenge, I did it without a word. I came to Michigan in the Fall and my advisers were very worried about it and advised me to petition the standards board, which took the entire semester to orchestrate and I did it in the Winter. The Board told me they thought I could do it, and though I thought their reasoning was strange I said okay and signed up for the class, and have been doing my best. I have hit a variety of circumstances where, for one disability or another, even though I have the knowledge I am supposed to I am not able to execute it in the way I need to for an assignment. I am thankfully pretty good at Spanish so sometimes I can work my way around these things, sometimes I cant. I did the best I could and mainly just failed all those assignments, but still did not complain. </p>
<p>Recently the situation worsened as more and more of those assignments kept coming up, and finally it was a huge exam where essentially 35% of the grade was based on not being autistic, and failings were assumed to be due to lack of Spanish knowledge rather than communication skills, which isn’t an accurate representation of my Spanish knowledge at all. I asked my adviser at the disabilities office if I should talk to my professor or what I should do, and he recommended I re-petition and look into a BGS. So I did. This whole time I have been playing along and doing exactly as I have been advised to do, and have only complained when THAT was what I was told to do. It’s not like I am off scheming all day trying to figure out how to get out of things I don’t like. This is my sixth semester of Spanish and I fully intended to take 8 if that was what it took to complete the requirement, I took algebra twice AND statistics, and I didn’t even need any of those math courses. I am unfortunately pretty heavily disabled in math, and disabled enough to make Spanish an awful burden that is only at times surmountable. I have not run away from that, in fact I have embraced it. I am doing the best I can, really. But there comes a point when your best isn’t good enough, and the disabilities office tells you to take other measures. So that is what I am doing. I just want to cooperate with whatever I can so I can graduate. I would have thought the fact that I was willing to GIVE UP MY MAJOR just to graduate would have indicated that. What kind of idiot do you take me for? You really think it is MOST LOGICAL to assume that I am just so lazy and unwilling to meet requirements that I am willing to give up the one thing I came to college to study just so I don’t have to do it? Seriously? Even if I weren’t an aspie I can’t imagine giving up studying my one true love just to get out of Spanish. That is completely absurd. </p>
<p>And I HAVE been talking about this a long time. Unfortunately in this world, disabilities aren’t a cookie cutter thing where if you have X disorder, you have the following list of symptoms and no others and nothing relates to anything else, or anything like that, especially when you have a combination of disabilities-- which is precisely my problem. You have all these puzzle pieces and you know what problems they are causing, but unfortunately you do not always know right away how they go together to make a disorder. Sometimes some of the pieces connect to make ADD, and some make dyscalculia, and some make autism, and they are all overlapping and interworking. It’s much more complicated than the DSM makes it out to be, especially when there are multiple disorders present. From September to February we didn’t have all the pieces to my puzzle, for portions of this battle we have known I was struggling disproportionately but didn’t know why and therefore could do nothing about it, and now we do have those pieces. We have a name for all the communication problems we didn’t before, and while in the real world the name doesn’t change anything, in the Board meeting that name means everything. The circumstances haven’t CHANGED, we just learned more along the way. I only just found out in February that I have autism. That is kind of a big deal, and yes, it does give us a more complete picture of my abilities and disabilities which may change the perspective somewhat. We know a lot more about me, and what I struggle with and why, than we did when I first petitioned. It is a complicated mess, I completely hate it, and I want nothing more to just be normal so I can take the classes and struggle like anyone else and be done with it. I don’t want anyones sympathy. I just want to be able to finish the requirement. It’s messy and complicated and I assure you I am more frustrated than any of you. It seems I have to be mentally handicapped in order for people to believe that there are some things I literally CANT do. There is more to what makes your mind and your body function than intelligence. There are some basic functions the “abled” crowd takes for granted that I was simply born without.</p>
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<p>This is mostly correct. At community college, I took Spanish 101, failed 102, took an out of sequence class to build my skills, retook 102, and took 201. You cannot complete the foreign language requirement out of residence, so though Michigan considers these courses equivalent and I DID receive credit for them, I have to retake the courses anyway because of my placement test results and surrender all those credits since I can’t be given credit for a course twice. I had one opportunity to start at Michigan where I was at Schoolcraft, as I explained, in the placement test at orientation, but the Schoolcraft program was VERY different from Michigan’s and posed little to no problems related to disabilities for me, so I didn’t anticipate needing accommodations since I’d never needed them before, and I DON’T whine and try to get things I don’t really need. </p>
<p>Because I misjudged that situation and really needed accommodations, I ended up testing into second semester Michigan Spanish, which is where I am at now and the equivalent of the 102 class I already took twice. I have not yet passed any Spanish at Michigan. I have a C- in it at present because my grades started average and have been getting lower and lower, so if I pass will depend on how the final exam goes in a few weeks. </p>
<p>It’s incredibly frustrating because I have attained the knowledge. I can read and write exceptionally well, and my listening is good when there aren’t 15 people trying to talk at once since I can’t tune out extraneous noise, but that is only about a quarter of the course. So I don’t know how it will go. Some of my deficits are passable in this course because it is not expected that I be that good, it’s just assumed I don’t have the knowledge yet since I’m a beginner. But I am not a beginner and I do have the knowledge, and when the class advances into intermediate levels those deficits keeping me from displaying more than a beginners level of knowledge are still going to be there. No matter how much I learn, it won’t get any better if I lack the functions to display that knowledge in the specific way required in the course. The PhD at the disabilities office saw what was happening and told me to petition again. I’m just doing as I was advised.</p>
<p>Did you talk to the professor too, or just repetition?</p>
<p>If you could explain the situation to the teacher and gain their sympathy, it could help. I mean, it’s no guarantee, but in many cases teachers can and will exert influence over their class/grades.</p>
<p>I did talk to the professor, too. She said to just trust my Spanish background and do the best I could, which was the best thing I could have done. I think it was enough to pass that exam, but as I explained, those deficits will rear their heads again when the conversational skills of the rest of the class have become more advanced and mine are still hindered by autism. </p>
<p>If desired, I can post the details of the assignment and the course itself, even compare it to my curriciulum at Schoolcraft, if it will clear things up any more. I don’t want to bore anyone even more to tears than I just did, but if I have confused everyone in a way that has led them to believe I am BSing you all I’d like to clear things up. I would never, ever do that. I love school and I love to work hard, I am constantly seeking out new challenges for myself so I can learn more and more, and though my foreign language situation had turned into quite the epic tale I don’t think it should convince you to think anything less of me. I kept the details on this part of the story very brief in the OP because I HADN’T meant to beg for your sympathy, I just wanted opinions on the BGS degree.</p>
<p>Twisted, I know you’re taking it on the chin on another thread so I thought I’d post my comments here- both to be supportive of you, and not to hijack the other person’s thread.</p>
<p>I like you. You are funny and quick and I enjoy reading your posts. So I don’t intend any of this to be critical- just helpful if it can be.</p>
<p>You need to get off this board for a bit. Take a week’s vacation; post yourself a sticky note on your computer which says, “NO CC AND I MEAN IT”. And then in a week you can come back. But you need to take care of business in real life, and this board is not helping you do that- and in fact, is probably blocking your path a bit.</p>
<p>Then you need to make an appointment at the Career Development office. You need to sit down with one of the nice and kindly folks there and instead of unloading all the things you can’t do, or that are difficult for you, or that are impossible for you given your LD’s and your autism, you need to tell them what you’re good at, what you’re terrible at, what you love to do and are interested in, and what you hate to do. Just like any other Michigan student. Nobody is good at everything, and you are not the first student to face a roadblock of some kind with your intended major. </p>
<p>They may give you a standardized test-- and don’t worry, no accommodations required, take as long as you need. Then someone will walk you through the results- you’d be a good social worker, you’d be a terrible linguist, you’d be great as an urban planner, you’d be terrible as a statistician, etc.</p>
<p>You need someone there to work with you on the implications of you switching tracks now. They may tell you that the BGS is perfectly fine given your career interests- they may tell you that nobody gets into grad school with the BGS but that employers don’t care-- I don’t know what they’ll tell you. But neither do you, and neither do any of the well meaning folks on this board. We don’t know.</p>
<p>And then you need to figure things out- so that’s when you can come back next week with some information. People here can be helpful if you need some alternate financing alternatives if you decide to extend your time at Michigan. People here can be helpful suggesting transfer options that won’t cost you an arm and a leg if you decide that staying for a BGS isn’t worth the extra cost. But we are trying to help you with no knowledge or data and that’s going to hurt you.</p>
<p>Now my other suggestion-- stop worrying about law school. You remind me of the poster’s here who often write that although they can afford their EFC they don’t want to spend it on their kids college education since then they won’t be able to help the kid with the downpayment after he’s married or help their grandkids with their college education. Drives me nuts- you won’t help the kid who sits at your dinner table every night, but you’re ready to help some unborn grandchild who may show up in 25 years needing tuition? You are ready to saddle your kid with educational loans that aren’t necessary but are ready to buy some condo someday for a wife he hasn’t met yet?</p>
<p>So don’t do that. You have enough on your plate without worrying about law school. Right now you need to finish your undergraduate degree and be employable when you graduate. Enough time for the future later on.</p>
<p>And although I don’t know you (obviously) I will make a suggestion that you may find law and law school to be exceptionally poor choices for you given what you’ve written about yourself. Being interested in law and helping people and advocating for them isn’t the same as passing the bar or sitting through a semester of civil procedure and participating in oral arguments and all that jazz. There are many ways that someone interested in political science and the law can be a happy and productive adult- and it strikes me that given some of your challenges, a JD isn’t the road to happy and productive for you.</p>
<p>But that’s for later. Go log off, make an appointment at the career office to talk through the implications of the BGS, and come back next week and tell us how it’s going. And get more sleep!!!</p>
<p>I’m not going to post here anymore, the environment here just does not bring out the best in me. I am really not the type to sit around and rant and rave about what I can’t do, if that were the case I wouldn’t have made it to Michigan. I made it here for my CAN-do attitude, but since so many people here perceive people with disabilities as the exact opposite I end up feeling the need to defend myself. That is not productive, and it is a waste of my time. There are many, many people here who have been like gold to me the past few months, but it is not worth the hassle. I AM dealing with things offline, I am meeting with about four different advisers, am in contact with countless resources and offices, and am trying everything possible to find a way to do what I CAN do-- and I am studying my ass off all day and nearly all night, and loving every second of it even when it’s hard. In the past few days I’ve talked to professors, coordinators, department heads, deans, advisers, and even an attorney. But I am a naturally thoughtful person, I am a planner, and I spent a LOT of my time researching different options in order to make good plans, my ability to plan is what gets me through life despite my disabilities. That was why I came here to ask about BGS, I needed adults not affiliated with my school to give me their perspectives on the reputation of the degree. I got some great advice. That was all I wanted. I did not intend for this to be an entire commentary on my attitude about my disabilities. I did not want nor deserve that kind of personal attention, and I don’t expect anyone else here would like it if their posts and entire persona were picked apart in that way either. I am done here.</p>
<p>In closing, I will look at the BGS degree and see if there is a way to work it into my plans if all else fails, but if it is humanly possible I am sticking to poli sci. I am going to Washington DC in January to intern and have a lot of work to do in the meantime to prepare, but the program heads are excited to have me involved. This is something that I can do. Politics IS something that I am good at. I have spent the last 20 years studying myself, and testing myself, too. I appreciate everyone’s input, but you just don’t know me like I, my family, and my advisers do. And given all the negativity here, that is who I will be spending my time with from now on. I came here for fun, to learn more about the college selection process for my sister, and to enjoy good conversations. You guys definitely know how to have an inspired conversation. But you couldn’t just let me be, you had to throw in your personal assessments and judgments of my every whim. You’ve no right to treat me that way. I am done here.</p>
<p>Thank you to those of you that have been kind to me. I appreciate it. Those of you that have been supportive may keep in touch via email through my profile if you wish. I’d like that.</p>
<p>“I’m not going to post here anymore, the environment here just does not bring out the best in me.”</p>
<p>You mean this thread or CC? Hopefully not CC!</p>
<p>Twisted, if you do view this again, I was told that people can create their own custom degrees (so long as they’re approved by an advisor) and there’s a whole bunch that you can look at that you might find interesting. So you could fill it with the classes you want to take (Poli Sci and if you have any other interests throw those in together and come up with a cool name that ties them all together), and use that as justification to take out whatever Math, Sci, Foreign language, whatever requirement you can’t take.</p>
<p>"Twisted, I know 4 people who graduated from U of M with a BGS degree several years ago. All have successful, lucrative careers, one in law, three in business. "</p>
<p>Could you please persuade the three in business to write an article on how to have lucrative careers with a liberal arts degree for worried liberal arts Michigan students like me?</p>
<p>Or did they not even need the liberal arts degree to have lucrative careers in business, just seed money?</p>
<p>A decade after getting a B.A. in English, I went back to school and got a B.G.S. in philosophy. It was enough to get me accepted into some decent grad schools for philosophy (Toronto, Wisconsin). I don’t think anybody would care if it’s a BA, a BS, a BGS or whatever.</p>