Agree that I don’t see how anyone, regardless of stats, could think that schools like Wisconsin and Michigan are safeties. That’s just hubris. My S20 is high stats and we were ecstatic and grateful when he got admitted EA to Michigan. We did not consider it a safety.
As pointed out, it’s 2%. Another 2 million took the ACT. With overlap, that’s probably 50,000+ students who scores at that level. I’m pretty sure that’s more than the combined freshman class of the top 20 USN schools. Probably even more than that.
Michigan is a poor choice as a “safety” for anyone, but 120 points above the combined 75th percentile scores at a school with an over 50% accept rate isn’t that crazy, IMHO. But anyone should have at least 2, if not three safety schools.
I suspect the student will be accepted to at least two of GT, UNC, and Wisconsin deferred, though there is no data on non-numeric aspects of the application. But it’s a cautionary tale for everyone.
What high school in Maine has 800 students per class (3200 overall)? The largest HS I found was Lewiston with 1500 students total.
@dfbdfb Not wanting to live in Iowa or West Virginia for 4 years is not the same as demanding “a Big Name.”
@AboutTheSame, fine then—replace those with Arizona (as mentioned by a poster upthread) or Maine or somesuch. The point is the same, even leaving aside geographic snobbery.
@dfbdfb My point was that kids might actually have geographical preferences and non-preferences that have no relationship to the perceived prestige or non-prestige of various schools. Call it snobbery if you will. That’s your world view; not mine.,
This student seems to believe that he is being penalized because of his ethnicity; I am not going to dispute that. But having 3 B’s is weak. As for the SAT scores, colleges look at any score over 750 in math and reading equally. Many students with numerous national awards are rejected by these top colleges. It’s important to apply to at least two real safety schools.
I truly worry that too many kids are mis-using their college admissions opportunities as a way of validating their parents through prestige-seeking. At least, that’s what I feel like is happening, and the kids suffer for it. Now, time is of the essence, and many excellent opportunities will have passed.
I have a suspicion that it may be more difficult than the already overwhelming odds against would indicate (for schools that have near single digit acceptance rates), to submit convincing “Prove to us that YOU belong here and have something unique to offer,” applications to 10+ super selective colleges. Ten colleges that are vastly different, but press that “prestige” button. It’s hard to imagine “fit” for Stanford, Cal Tech, Michigan, Wisconsin, Harvard, Yale, UNC, Northwestern, Princeton, etc… for a single student. They’re so different (the communities).
Universities have been yelling it from the rooftops-- college admissions is about so much more than “high stats” and buzzwords. So, perhaps that is the problem. Demonstrating unique qualities, grit, true leadership (not just the typical high school popularity contests), talents that don’t reflect the hard work of the parents, and framing capabilities in the context of potential and growth, and with an authentic voice seem to work better than “high stats” alone. You know… be real. Be genuine. Be an actual fit for the environment that you’re applying to. It probably helps a lot to qualify “fit” using criteria with more thought and depth than “T20” and “Ivy League” though.
No other state’s flagship is your safety school. Full stop.
The other thing about these bigger state flagships with growing popularity, is that if you’re coming from a top 20 major metro they may see hundreds of apps very similar to yours. I have seen weird admissions decisions from metro schools vs. students from more unique locales and I have a kid at UW Madison (from OOS). Doing CS coincidentally. OOS admission is grower every harder. It’d be interesting to know if this applicant is from Chicago area, Minneapolis, area, NYC, CA metro, etc.
Once you hit an admissions threshold they are looking for qualities beyond your stats and possibly a true desire to attend that institution. It’s hard to personalize your essays if you know nothing about campus and you’re sending out many many apps.
UMass-Amherst would be more of a match plus it has a decent CS program. RPI, WPI, and any number of Southern/Southwestern OOS publics would be worth looking into.
This might be cynicism on my part, but it’s quite possible that the student in question might have moved to Maine to try to take advantage of geographic diversity. Sort of what some people out in Silicon Valley falsify residency requirements to go to a better rated high school.
I am the parent of a high school homeschool kid who is applying right now, not great stats, great kid. I went to Yale and ex went to Columbia and there is NO WAY IN HELL we’d get in today. My son seems to think he has a good chance at some great schools and I am basically forcing him to apply to safeties, which (to be honest) aren’t even safeties since they’re holistic admissions. So in this case, it’s the child who wants “prestige and location” and the mom who is saying “let’s face reality.” It’s so difficult!
@MusakParent the original article stated that the student was from Maine, but I have my suspicions.
@Muad_dib did his/her homework well. There are no high schools in Maine with that large of a graduation class. I’m thinking the student is possibly from New York or Massachusetts and is trying to use Maine residency. Either way, elite college admissions is not just dependent on multiple APs/high standardized test scores.
Play Lacrosse, my friends son had 1050 on his SATs, 3.00 Gpa, As Bs and Cs, got in early decision for Lacrosse at Cornell. Its a joke, these school will take anyone that plays lacrosse, even if you are a bench warmer.
We don’t know if this student applied for financial aid…
Full pay kids have an ENORMOUS advantage…and although OOS kids bring in more revenue, top universities know they are expecting FA and often reject them because it hurts their yield if they are accepted and don’t enroll…which they likely won’t if they are looking for their best offer…
Need Aware, Need Blind, etc. are becoming marketing gimmicks to generate applications --schools can see parent occupations, home values, address/town, number of siblings, sports (golf, skiing vs. basketball) …especially when you see the very same schools reporting year after year, after year, that less than 50% of their student body is receiving aid…and aid often includes just loans. Amazing how consistent they are when choosing students…
I know many families that are writing full checks for $72,000 + to attend “prestigious schools” because they are focused on “the network” but nothing can convince them it’s a mirage and because of this tuition will keeps rising …med, law, dental or business schools offer far better returns on investment.
I sincerely hope it all works out for this student, but he needs to understand his scores and GPA are not that special in the upper altitudes of college admissions.
@MusakParent “No other state’s flagship is your safety school. Full stop.”
Really, full stop?
A kid with high stats (1600 SAT, only 3 Bs with 14 AP courses), can’t call a single other states’ flagship a safety? Not one?
I find that very hard to believe. For every UC Berkeley there is at least a couple of other Wyoming, Vermont, Idaho, New Mexico, Kentucky, Kansas, etc…
My daughter picked one and only one Safety and it was an OOS flagship (Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business), because it has been a Top 10 undergrad business school for decades and had rolling admissions. She applied very early and was a direct admit to the B-school, Honors College, scholarships, etc… within 2 weeks of sending in her application. Then, she applied to a number of Reach colleges and skipped any other Safety and Match, because they were pointless. One flagship safety acceptance, then concentrate on Reach is a very acceptable plan to me.
All I am saying is I’ve seen some surprising results the past few years when it comes to OOS flagships. Especially out of metro areas with high app numbers at certain schools. My kid was safely above the 75% with 99% type stats and was bounced from a couple surprising schools
Just worth noting: There are OOS flagships and then there are OOS flagships.
Michigan, UVa, and such? Yeah, they’re nobody’s safeties.
Wyoming, Alaska Fairbanks, and such? Definite safeties for many.
(And remember that many state schools, including many flagships, admit by formula—if you have the stats, you have an acceptance.)
Agree with those who called out as nonsense the “ full stop” regarding “no OOS flagship is a safety.” As noted many admit on pure stats. Iowa and Mizzou also come to mind.
Flagship public schools that are not safeties for OOS would be the likes of Cal/UCLA, Michigan, UT-Austin, UVA, UNC, Georgia Tech, and possibly Florida. I might include UIUC/Purdue if EECS or any flavor of engineering is on the list.
There is no magic formula or secret sauce for college admissions these days.