<p>aries, </p>
<p>So you agree. Your comments were w/r/t the college administrations. My quotes were about the students. Unless things have changed since my college days, they’re still different 
The admin choses the programs (maybe with student input, of course) but the students chose their social lives and recreation…</p>
<p>ariesathena- I truly know what you are saying- as I have stated before, I have heard negative remarks from “open-minded” northerners as soon as my son started looking south. We ignore them, but I must say, I personally find hanging the Confederate flag from statehouses offensive. I think S.C. needs to think about that one, as it offends some. (I know this is not the what this thread is about!)</p>
<p>i begin W&L in two weeks. i have visited several times and know many students who currently attend. it is indeed true that W&L is full of wealthy, southern preps; what is not true, however, is that most (or any) of these kids are racist or closed to diversity. the university has top notch academics (much better than its #13 ranking by USnews), a vibrant social scene, caring/ personable/ affable professors, a gorgeous campus, and is the only top LAC with an accredited business program (as well as a top 25 law school). could the school be more diverse? absolutely. but i am tired of hearing from so many close-minded northerners (yes, close minded northerners) how W&L is merely a “trap of close minded conservatism” and “the last bastion of the ‘Old South’.” i have never met any group of kids more friendly, open, and happy than those at W&L; it is the reason i immediately fell in love with the school. i visited other top LACs; schools such as Wesleyan and Vassar are widely known for its diversity, open-mindedness, and liberalism; what i found at these schools, however, was indeed the opposite; i was immediately frowned upon for dressing the way i do and being from new orleans; the only group that many of these students were open to were those like themselves (the “bring down the corporations, smoke a joint, save a whale, and become a vegan” stereotype). anyway, i love W&L and hope you do as well when you visit in the fall. good luck.</p>
<p>lake washington, of course the W&L students protested the co-ed change, but only becusae of tradition, not sexism. would not the students of smith, mount holyoke, wellesley, etc. protest a change to co-education as well? would that not be the exact same thing?</p>
<p>didn’t mean to post all that again. sorry guys.</p>
<p>pirt8528- You sound like the ideal student to go to any college- you are open-minded, objective, see the best and know your mind- best of luck at W&L!</p>
<p>Good point pirt. </p>
<p>Vassar in NY and Wheaton College in Mass had major dissention from its students and alumnae when they opted to go coed. W&L has done a much better job at attracting women to its student body (it’s just about 50/50 M/F) than these 2 women’s colleges (one a Seven Sisters no less) regarding male students.</p>
<p>I didn’t refer to co-education at W&L to criticize opposing students. Rather, I mentioned it as one element of political conservatism that was evident at the time. Furthermore, I don’t believe the issues attendant to ‘gender integration’ at women’s colleges is the same as at men’s colleges. There are legitimately diffirent considerations between the two. The fact that places like Vassar do not have 50% male student body today doesn’t really address the achievment of a 50% female/male ratio at a former men’s college such as W&L.</p>
<p>So you are saying women are more likely to follow the men than vice versa??</p>
<p>Re: “the battle between a progressively left leaning faculty and an ultra-conservative student body”</p>
<p>Do I detect loaded words here? Possibly advancing the type of exclusion through stereotyping that appears to lie at the heart of the criticism of W&L? </p>
<p>Describing fraternities as having a “caustic” effect on the school and an entire student body as “ultra-conservative” suggests a level of personal knowledge that seems hard to claim by those who have never set foot on the campus. How can talking so generally (pun intended?) about a place and group of people that the poster has never visited be valuable to others? Why perpetuate stereotyping and uninformed generalizations, esp for the purpose of criticizing others for those same sins? Don’t we all have enough to share from our own personal experiences? </p>
<p>Experiences like those shared by the posters on this thread who have attended and visited W&L, whether positive or negative, can be helpful, esp when reporting facts and personal reactions. Isn’t that the greater good of CC?</p>
<p>It is rather interesting how many folks on this board use “conservative” as a negative term, whether as the writer or reader. It’s too bad, because, at least in some uses of the term, we need balance. </p>
<p>I suppose it is no different than the response my quote from the Wash Post article received. You’d think a school with students of wealth with good backgrounds would be perceived as a plus by some folks, just like a strongly greek culture is what some kids want, perhaps even need. </p>
<p>We have a lot of hidden judgements going on around here. </p>
<p>(barrons, maybe women don’t follow the men, just the money, power and influence. Most of the womens colleges that went co-ed did so as an alternative to bankruptcy. Not so for most men’s colleges, I think.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Esquette, I believe I was rather clear that I made references to the ISI book for my sources, and invited people to read it. I also was VERY clear about my personal feelings and bias AGAINST fraternities and their nefarious impact on US college life, a fact for which I will never apologize. Calling it caustic is probably the mildest adjective I could use. Check the history of Beta Theta Pi at WL for where I come from. </p>
<p>Further, I did not give an opinion about who was right or wrong in the debate between the faculty and the student body. I merely pointed to the fact there was friction. As far as my views about a leftist faculty and a conservative student body, I believe that my record is pretty clear about where I stand. In the same vein, I believe that the record of the ISI’s authors are also clear. Not exactly your typical critics of conservatives in higher education!</p>
<p>Actually, the fact that the school has the reputation for being conservative is the quality that initially attracted my son to it, since he considers himself to be very conservative. In one college guide W&L was referred to as the perfect school for a Republican, which was also a plus in his mind. In fact, it was the only school that far away from home other than Dartmouth to which he applied. In other words, he began his visit to the school with a very good impression. Even so, the social scene seemed limited to the drinkers and the anti-drinkers and not much in the middle.</p>
<p>thank you for your compliments, njmom. mewmassdad, you are correct in saying that there are many hidden judgements flying around on this board. one reason i remain on CC is to try to understand (/fight) why and how “conservative” can be such a dirty word to so many people who consider themsleves liberal on this website. a true “open-minded,” “free thinking” (two terms that are often used on these forums) liberal would not act narrow-mindedly enough to bash constantly an opposing point of view; but, rather, debate in a civil manner. </p>
<p>another issue that bothers me is how many people openly condemn any and all greek systems, some going so far as to say they would never even consider going (or letting a child go) to a school that has any greek life. some reasons people often give for such reasoning includes: “fraternities are too exclusive,” “fraternities create cookie-cutter personalities,” and “fraternities foster alcohol and drug abuse.” all of these stereotypes of course can be true, but are often not. an honest observation i made during my college search (top LACs) was that at non-greek schools i visited (or at least where greek life wasn’t prominent), there was MUCH more of a drug presence (vassar, middlebury, wesleyan, swat). i by no means claim that alcohol abuse is better than drug abuse; they are both wrong. my point is just that at many northeastern schools with a “free-thinking” atmosphere, alot more marijuana, mushrooms, acid, ecstasy seems to be consumed. fraternities also makes friendships for life (in my father’s experience), more so than any other kind of organization with the excpetion of perhaps athletics. fraternities are also not always necessarily exclusive; any and every fraternity party at W&L is totally open to any student.</p>
<p>sorry if i got on my soap box here.</p>
<p>Pirt8528, a lot of what you are saying echoes the views of a former poster named Lucifer. You may want to use google to search his posts on CC. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I’d like to add that some of us have VERY good reasons to have different ones about fraternities. This said, there are no valid reasons to debate this issue. </p>
<p>In the meantime, you may want to find the source of this little W&L tidbit:</p>
<p>**“Our reputation as a ‘party school’ with Greek life predominant, is not in our best interest, nor is it in the best interest of our graduates” **</p>
<p>Hint: Trident Online and Strategic Planning</p>
<p>Haha, I just was at a W&L function with some of the heads of campus and one told my dad he would like to see Greek Life participation increase.</p>
<p>No, NMD, I disagree - STRONGLY disagree.</p>
<p>If you read my comments in their entirety and not just the ones that you agree with, you’ll see that I said that many talented students are opting to take a poverty course and doing required internships in rural Arkansas. Those are NOT fancy internships in nice offices; they aren’t things like doling out soup and then going to a swanky dinner; they aren’t traveling to some remote tropical location to work with the illiterate kids there and sit on the beach.</p>
<p>These kids are spending time in frighteningly poor parts of the country, largely rural Appalachia, and do so voluntarily and because they are passionate about making the world a better place. </p>
<p>Shepard is funded by one of those uber-wealthy CEO types that W&L churns out. Seems like even the alumni care about these issues.</p>
<p>“Haha, I just was at a W&L function with some of the heads of campus and one told my dad he would like to see Greek Life participation increase.”</p>
<p>Oh dear, did your dad enjoy meeting Tripp Watson, the Eminent Commander? :D</p>
<p>aries,</p>
<p>So, where do we disagree? The fact that some kids want to do well for others is hardly novel, except perhaps at W&L?</p>
<p>The fact that it is one of the few schools that takes its garbage (sorry, leftover food) and gives it to the poor…I’m not sure whether I should be happy for W&L or frightened, especially from a public health perspective (yea, I care about things like foodpoisioning.)</p>
<p>So yea, I’ll applaud your astute observations that even some W&L students have compassion for others. </p>
<p>So what? That makes up for the impression even a Washington Post writer has of the place? </p>
<p>Look, I for one never said there was anything wrong with being a wealthy institution with heavy greek presence. I even think drinking is a normal part of college life. Better in college than in the working world, after all. Why you get the idea that some quotes from an article are a putdown of the place is beyond me. Perhaps YOU don’t think well of such things? As for your earlier comment, “not really some marginalised, yuppie professor.”, where did that come from? and you did not say “many talented students are opting to take a poverty course and doing required internships in rural Arkansas.” You could at least quote yourself accurately before attacking others.</p>
<p>I think not Xiggi.</p>
<p>Try one of the deans.</p>
<p><a href=“Examiner is back - Examiner.com”>Examiner is back - Examiner.com;
<p>An interesting perspective regarding the confederate flag…</p>
<p>I believe a few few years ago W&L actually had a frat that with very deep southern ties - and had the confederate flag hanging in the frat - and some of the brothers had them in their dorm rooms… a very small ratio of students - but they at the time were still considered as being part of the greek system - ok now is that diversity of a kind??</p>
<p>One other thing - please don’t generalize that ALL students at W&L are from the wealthy side of the tracks - respectfully consider that there are many students who are there for the education and experience - a wonderful one at that - and they are not from that place where only $$ signs make a difference. Each and every student there is an important entity and can make a difference.</p>