<p>On the other hand, I do realize that there are terrible teachers out there. Those teachers should be expected to change for the better or find another job. It’s important that parents document what is happening & advocate for their kids in such cases. This is different from the kind of thing the OP’s article discusses, though.</p>
<p>
Yes. Exactly.</p>
<p>But, oh do the teachers scream when confronted with this kind of reasoning!</p>
<p>Actually, geomom, there’s quite a difference. A special ed kid has an IEP (drawn up with input from teacher, special ed teacher, administrator, parent and maybe child) that outlines what the school <em>must</em> do for the student to access (not maximize) the curriculum. Failure to do it is, basically, breaking the law but doing it does not necessarily provide the best curriculum for the student. For example, all they are required to do for a blind, gifted student is provide him with the curriculum in braille, or in large print or on tape (whatever they’ve agreed upon)-- but it’s still the same inadequate curriculum your child has. So the special ed parents whose children are not receiving their accommodations have a legal right to complain-- but they’re complaining because their kid can’t <em>access</em> the curriculum (didnt’ even get the book on tape-- the equivalent of never having been given a book at the beginning of the year but being tested on it); their kid isn’t necessarily getting any more adequate a curriculum than the other kids. </p>
<p>Oh, and yes, the categories aren’t exclusive.</p>
<p>I was the PTA President at my kids’ schools for four years so was subject to lots of complaining and intervening by parents related to PTA issues, school decisions and cafeteria policies. Most of the complainers had time to hang around the school but had no time to volunteer and actually do something productive. The most difficult area was t-shirts. No matter what color or style we chose parents would complain we were discriminating against girls, boys, big people or small people. Another problem was that some parents didn’t seem able to adjust to change and got distraught over every change, small or big, that was made at the school. I’m glad to be out of that job. Now I’m extra nice to the school secretaries as I saw they dealt constantly with angry phone calls and visitors.</p>
<p>2collegewego,</p>
<p>Yes, I understand the difference that a special ed kid has a legal right
to complain, while the child that has a passion for learning and isn’t
being accommodated only has a moral right to complain.</p>
<p>But it wasn’t so long ago that handicapped kids were being ignored,
and it was the people that stood up and said, “Hey, we have a moral
right to complain!” that were the ones that got those IEP laws passed.</p>
<p>dsultemeier,</p>
<p>I agree it is classless to disparage the efforts of volunteers. How
discouraging! (someone made this point earlier about carping at
volunteer coaches). Still, I’ve loved all the time I’ve spent in schools
volunteering. But this is very different than parents being mocked
(and what is the term “helicopter parent” but mockery?) for caring
(and sometimes complaining) about the performance of education
professionals that are paid for by our tax dollars.</p>
<p>Isn’t it interesting that when surveys are done, most people think there is a problem with education, but their school is wonderful? I came back to education after being in the outside world for many years, and just as in all areas, there are good and bad, but really have found with my outside-in perspective, that the education is there is a child wants it. However, what has happened is that so many parents don’t want a good education, they just want teachers to pass out A’s to their kids and all is well. The fact that Johnny may not have learned anything rarely, if ever, factors into the situation. And whatever happened to a B being a good grade? Obviously not to helicopter parents who have taken it upon themselves NOT to work to improve the system, but to badger, harass, and effect unearned improvements for their own children, like the parents who said their child had to work too hard to get the A’s on vocabulary quizzes, so they filed a 504 request and no more was spelling an issue for that child. You wouldn’t believe the jibberish that child produced thereafter. But all they said was, Colorado State would modify, and they didn’t want the child to have to work so hard for something that others got with so much less time and effort. It just wasn’t fair! That’s what we are dealing with on a daily basis. Society is talking the talk about wanting excellent education, but is noy walking the walk. Just get my kid into the school I believe my child deserves and all will be well. That’s helicoptering. Supporting your child in an unfair situation is not at issue here. Throwing your weight around to obtain something for your child that the child didn’t earn, is. Being upset because you don’t like a teacher’s personality, or because the teacher is “too hard” or because a teacher is too demanding and inflexible because the teacher has high standards, is poor parenting, plainly said. And these helicopter parents are hurting their children in the long run. These are the kids that end up being adults with a sense of entitlement, disillusionment, and poor work ethics.</p>
<p>I think the difference is that parents think their child is “gifted” and want accomodations but in fact this child may just be well above average or socially out of the norm which can sometimes make them appear precotious – which is not IEP territory --and which can be difficult for the parents and for the school. IEPs are for kids that are way, way out of the norm in some area and the decision regarding classes, accomodations or not, etc. is a joint decision in our district between my husband and I, my son now that he’s older, the teachers, guidance office and occasionally the principal joins in. There is at least one meeting a year, sometimes 2 and testing every 4 years. The process that lead to the IEP was very thorough and involved hours and hours of testing which is repeated every 4 years. I have a high IQ dyslexic with no other complications thank goodness so we keep him running with leading pack in math and deal with the reading/writing intensive classes depending on the individual teacher/style, etc, some years with accomodations, some years we let him fly on his own. Most people might be surprised he has an IEP, but he was a classic case. I can’t really tell from your posts if your child has an IEP, if your child has a disability but no IEP or if you just feel that your child is gifted. Sometimes with public schools if you have your child tested by outside people it can help. We couldn’t figure out what was “wrong” with our son back in first grade and were on the path to get outside help, but the school stepped in so we didn’t need to. It’s not difficult to reach outside the school in a non-threatening way and sometimes resources are so tight in public schools you are actually doing them a favor. We offered to follow through on our own dime, but the school told us there was no need, that it was becoming clear regarding our son. If you have a gifted child and you can put some outside substantiation behind the claim the school may take a different attitude. Schools have very limited funds and are often confronted by parents whose kids aren’t performing at some level and the parents look to the school to “fix it”. Having an advocate inside the school can help (like a guidance counselor, teacher, etc.) and approaching the school with the attitude that it is a team effort helps. Every teacher, every principal, every superindendent wants success stories. If you have a situation where the outcome has the potential to be successful for the school and for the student, you will have an easier time of it. Our school does shuttle a middle schooler to the high school to take more “advanced classes”. But that particular child is rare…very rare and unlikely to come along but once in a blue moon. Unfortunately while we “know” our children it is not enough to simply tell the school “my child is different”. Because really if you step back all children are “different”. Be prepared to back it up statistically and substantively and I bet the path will not only be clearer, but less obstructed. My 2 cents…</p>
<p>ejr1,</p>
<p>I am totally on your side here. Parents who care about learning and good
teachers are natural allies. Your definition of a helicopter parent is:
and
and
and
</p>
<p>I would call these parents selfish cheaters. </p>
<p>However, I think the term “helicopter parent” is used much more broadly than that. I think it is used to demean parents who sincerely want to be involved, or who might want to keep a close eye on a teacher that they just have a bad feeling about (forty years ago my mom had a bad feeling about my chair-throwing second grade teacher, and ended up on the school board for ten years).</p>
<p>The real shame about this glib term “helicopter parent” is it makes parents feel that educators don’t want their input, it makes them self-conscious about being legitimate advocates for their children, and honestly I think it makes all parents a little suspicious about what is going on at school that the administrators don’t want us to see.</p>
<p>In short, I think it introduces an element of distrust between parent and teacher into what should be a supportive and collaborative relationship.</p>
<p>I wish we would call selfish parents “selfish”, and have the nerve to ask them to volunteer and care about other children than just their own. I wish we could call the cheating parents “cheaters”, and have administrators with backbone who have the nerve to tell them “no”.</p>
<p>But could we drop the term “helicopter parent?”</p>
<p>ejr1 - you know what allows me to sleep at night? The fact that the kids know who the really intelligent kids are. The kids know who cheats. The kids know whose parents run pass interference and most of all the kids know which kids really deserve the val/sal/top 10 and which kids got it through the proverbial back door…that allows me to sleep at night. Look at the “kids” who are posting here…for the most part they disdain the aggressive parents and support the teachers. That right there says a mouthful. The kids know that every once in awhile they will hit a “bad” teacher or a teacher that they have difficulty. I suspect the kids take it in stride better than the parents. The few posters who dissed the teachers posted thoughtless and fairly unintelligence comments to top it off.</p>
<p>I have intervened a few times. My son had no friends in his second grade class and was being picked on for being smart. I agonized for months over asking for a change to a different “house” for grades 3/4, because I was our house’s rep to Families as Partners (sort of like PTO) and didn’t want to set a bad example or seem to reflect badly on the teacher, who was not the problem. But I did ask for the change and got him placed in a different house with his best friend. Just having his best friend to sit with in the cafeteria and play with at recess totally transformed his school experience. He never asked me to move him, but he has often thanked me for doing so.</p>
<p>In freshman year of HS, he had an assignment for health class to make a poster with a “public service announcement”. He chose “Question Authority” for his poster’s theme. He had run it by me and I thought it was a great idea. The #1 mantra of child sexual abuse prevention experts is, “Teach your child to question authority”. Informed citizens of a democracy need to learn how to question authority, etc. Well, the teacher took it as a smart-a** kid talking about defying legitimate authority and gave him a D+. I e-mailed her and politely asked if we could discuss this, because I knew my son would want to do better in her class going forward, so maybe he needed to understand better what she was looking for. She sent a polite e-mail back, talked with my son and also with some of her colleagues, decided she had mis-interpreted his message and changed his grade, which I did NOT ask her to do, but hey, that was ok too. From that point on, though, I told my son he needed to approach his teachers, in person or by e-mail, when anything arose.</p>
<p>I felt and still do feel, that these were appropriate interventions, though it would have been better with the hs one if I’d suggested that HE e-mail the teacher. I learned from that one that hs was different from middle school and it was time for my son to take over the reins with his teachers. But some of the examples on this thread, where teachers are abusive, etc., I think do warrant parent intervention, even in hs.</p>
<p>I think we have less parental pushiness here in VT, maybe because there’s less Ivy-mania here than in some parts, but I’ve seen it happen, mostly parents pushing to get their average-math-kids into accelerated math classes and then the kid drags down the pace for everyone else. Really annoying!</p>
<p>I have intervened twice (my S is a college first year student now and D’s a junior in H.S.). Actually, both times have been on my S’s behalf, I realized. First time was in 5th grade. I agreed to allow him to be placed in what they called an inclusive class … special ed kids integrated into the classroom. My S was in the gifted program. My D had been in a similar class for two years with absolutely phenomenal results. (Teacher was old as dirt and as wise as solomon … and the special ed teacher was intuitive, as was her aide) Regretably, same was not said of my son’s class. Teacher was overwhelmed. I had 4 conferences with her because my son, who was never a discipline problem, extremely respectful … was getting ignored because he was never a discipline problem. Give S a book when he finished his work 30 minutes before everyone else. The mantra became S goes read a book. After he’d practically cleared out the accelerated reading library, and she’d made promise after promise about providing independent study lessons for him, I finally went to administration and demanded he be transferred to a regular class. I think the principal was shocked to see me because he only knew me as the loyal behind the scenes dividend who never made a wave.</p>
<p>I intervened again in 7th grade when my S’s geography teacher could not input grades into a computerized system without screwing it up. We had our son approach her first after he figured out what she was doing wrong. She didn’t get defensive; she just plain didn’t comprehend. Finally, I went to discuss it with her and explained if she doesn’t pay attention to the category she enters things under the weightings of the grades she’s set up in advance are all messed up. I think she finally understood, but her reaction was, “guess we know why I’m not a math teacher.” My s wanted to bang his head on the desk. </p>
<p>Most of his H.S. teachers were great; some are the reason tenure gets a bad rap. Each of those times he had to deal, including watching kids cheat blatantly in class and realizing it would affect his grade but those are the sad breaks. </p>
<p>He’s doing so well in college, handling all his own “business,” and taking great pride in being his own man. I love seeing it.</p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>
Why didn’t he do something about that?</p>
<p>Teacher was aware and didn’t care. She was 182 years old, one of the best teachers on campus in terms of teaching the material (one of the most difficult, challenging, and rewarding classes he ever had) … but she just ignored all cheating and made speeches about how it wouldn’t help them in the end. Plus, as my kids are always telling me, cheating’s so rampant, you’d have to be deaf and blind to not see it … across the board, just about every class. What are they going to do spend every waking moment turning someone in. Having a moral code, in some ways, makes you an outsider as it is. You chime in when discussion’s ocurring about it, and kids rolls their eyes at you … like what planet did you come from, you goody two shoes. </p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>
I’m asking my high schooler today if this is the case in his school. I would think that teachers could detect cheating. I suggest that your high school is not typical (I hope it’s not!). </p>
<p>If cheating is as rampant as your kids say it is, then <em>any</em>thing being done at your school would be suspect. That includes SAT tests. And that also includes anything coming out of administration or guidance counselors. If the kids cheat as much as you say, then I would wonder if there must also be cheating going on by the adults, if they don’t care.</p>
<p>CTTC, let us know what your student says. My children in a small public school in the Midwest say cheating is everywhere. We had a very lively dinner one night loast year where they shared just how some of the kids cheat. Unbelievable. I often wonder if the schools know that there is that much cheating going on and don’t care or if they really don’t know it’s going on. When I look at the spectrum of grade point averages in my children’s school there is either grade inflation happening or an awful lot of cheating. I also see quite a few straight A graduates with ACT scores around 21 which is pretty average. My kids said a good friends kids cheated “alot”. The parents were really hard on the the kids and expected As - although neither kid was particularly exceptional. They both graduated as honors grads and they both are really, really struggling grade-wise in college so I told the my kids, what goes around comes around. My kids admitted doing the sneak a peak cheating at least once but both said they had never engaged in any of the stealth stuff (which I won’t share because kids read these threads). SAT and ACT are proctored closely and the setting is different so I doubt there is as much if any of cheating going on. My kids standardized test scores are very closely correlated to their school achievement levels I think so hopefully they are telling us the truth about rarely cheating. My kids would never rat anybody out because my kids are not competitive grade-wise in the least. I’ve debated mentioning it to the school, but decided not too…bigger fish to fry than worry about 4.0 kids with 2.5 or 3.0 brains.</p>
<p>And don’t get us teachers started on cheating! I catch lots of kids every year, and the only thing they or most of their parents think about is that they are upset they were caught, or “everyone does it.” And what I go through when I catch a kid, because it now means a zero and a low grade! Those same parents that think their child will go to HYP are now harrassing the teacher and administration to give the child another chance, etc. Meeting upon meeting upon meeting, and threats to go to the school board. Don’t you remember that teacher (was it in Ky or TN? - I have forgotten) that resigned rather than change the grades of kids who cheated on their Science Fair Projects by using projects straight from the internet? The school board, under pressure from those parents, told her to change the grades. Many of the kids who didn’t cheat decided to transfer to other schools because they didn’t want their reputations tarnished. A teacher in my former school had no administrative support when she caught a lot of kids cheating on a project for Chemistry. Why? These harrassing parents take huge amounts of time and energy away from real learning. And they don’t stop! Plus, many of them show up with their lawyers. So it isn’t just the “bad” teachers that you say should be dealt with, these types of parents attack to protect their young against even the best teachers who enforce rules and the honor code. But to these parents, these teachers are “bad” because their child might actually have to face the music for what that child has done. They don’t want that. Their child is perfect and deserving. Those mean teachers are keeping them out of HYP. And you wouldn’t believe how many times we have heard that said to us!</p>
<p>This turn in the discussion to cheating makes me sad. I’m not only
sad for the teachers for whom it must be insanely frustrating. I’m sad for
what it says about the purpose of high school. It seems that we are
viewing school as a contest to be won, rather than an opportunity to learn.
(Winning can be accomplished by cheating, but learning can’t.)</p>
<p>What can we all do to refocus the attention of our children on the real goal?</p>
<p>Considering how little extra time is giving to achieving the ‘real goal’ of H.S. and how much emphasis is put on beating last year’s testing results, something in me can’t blame the kids for cheating. They are told over and over again, literally and by winks ‘n’ nods, that the higher the testing scores, the more money the school gets. Testing is all-important…they take weeks out of the school year to prep for the Maryland State Assessments to name just one. Add to that the pressure from parents to be excellent and to show ‘leadership’ in everything they do (I live in Montgomery County, MD where the parents tend to be extremely demanding), and the chronic lack of sleep among teenagers, the choice becomes cheat or fail. And failure isn’t an option when everyone you know is focused on grades, grades, grades. </p>
<p>I no longer have a child in the public system and NCLB is big reason why. Plenty of my friends still have children in the system and it’s nervewracking. Staying on top of the changing rules and styles of learning that were okay last year but are now verboten is a full time job in itself. We ask an awful lot of our children at an increasingly younger age. I salute those who get through it ego and honor intact.</p>
<p>Novelisto,</p>
<p>When do you expect your child to grow up and mature enough to be able to take care of himself/herself? By senior year of high school, and even before that, your child should be able to fend for himself. If your student can’t handle the workload of academics, sports, or EC’s then they probably aren’t cut out for it.</p>
<p>A friend of mine and his parents are like the group mentioned above. He received a C- in precalc his junior year (wait… get this, he transferred in from a private school where he was receiving an A…). Everyone else in the class was planning on taking AP Calc, so lo and behold he wants to, also. The teacher told him “no”. His mother “discusses” with the teacher on how he should be able to take the class and that they can’t restrict the classes he wants. Semester time rolls around and he has a C in the class. His mother, once again, complains to the teacher and she ends up bumping it up to a C+.</p>
<p>Cheat or fail? High school is about learning to succeed, fail, show up on time, communicate effectively, and STUDY EFFECTIVELY… Notice I did not say get good grades. Yes, that’s important and all, but your grades in high school do not predict your success in college. There are kids in my Calc class that will struggle all of next year because they have not learned to study effectively. On the other side of the spectrum, there are kids that have struggled through high school and have had to work, and will now find it easier to adapt to the college atmosphere because they have those study habits.</p>
<p>Another kid in my calc class, who will be attending THE University of Michigan next year, received a 23 (on his third time) on his ACT. He is ranked pretty high in the class, but has cheated all through high school to get where he’s at that he lacks the ability to work through a problem. He is now in my calc class and he struggles unbelievably. It sucks having to explain limits to him when we’re doing techniques of Integration. I’m not looking forward to attending the same college as him…</p>
<p>Finally, if you suck at something, then you suck at it. Most of the time you can work and get better at something, but there are going to be kids that are ten times better than you at it because they are just naturally good at it. Please do not whine because you just don’t understand something. Work at it and make it a goal to improve, but realize that you just may not pick it up.</p>
<p>Josh you are a smart kid. Your parents should be proud. As a fellow Michigander I’m shocked your classmate got into UofM this year with a 23 ACT and Cs, you must have a good school system. He should count his blessings…wonder if he’ll make it through. My son #1 had classmates like that and 6 of them came home at Christmas from various colleges…and aren’t going back. Gee, I wonder why.</p>