<p>Another thought to put out there: Women are more likely to be discouraged by such phrases and words than men are. </p>
<p>And how do you Pollyannas explain this?</p>
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<p>Translation: The world isn’t ready for strong women.</p>
<p>Cardinal, did you also see the study where women are less likely to NEGOTIATE in the first place?</p>
<p>Women-- but not men-- are thought of as “pushy” and blameworthy if they negotiate. And you wonder why they wouldn’t negotiate? Hmm.</p>
<p>Being thought of as “pushy” is not why women tend to negotiate less. </p>
<p>This is not a X causes Y scenario with the variables you provided. </p>
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<p>I don’t agree with the premise of the campaign. Girls can be leaders without being bossy just as boys can be leaders without being bossy. Bossy is often the female version of bully which is used to describe boys who do not behave well. Nobody should be a bully or bossy. </p>
<p><a href=“Don't #BanBossy: Ban Bossiness | Time”>http://time.com/24942/call-a-boy-bossy/</a></p>
<p>“By all means, if you feel the urge to call a girl bossy, think about where it comes from, whether it’s merited, whether you’d say the same thing to her brother in the same situation. But if you don’t want to live in a world of, by, and for the bossy, ask yourself why you’re not calling her brother bossy — and whether maybe you should.”</p>
<p>Well, would you look at that…I’m not the only one who thinks that way. Ban the unwanted behavior. Don’t just go for “equality of the sexes”. </p>
<p>"“By all means, if you feel the urge to call a girl bossy, think about where it comes from, whether it’s merited, whether you’d say the same thing to her brother in the same situation. But if you don’t want to live in a world of, by, and for the bossy, ask yourself why you’re not calling her brother bossy — and whether maybe you should.”</p>
<p>I have called my kids bossy. They are boys. I hadn’t realized it was only a term reserved for girls.</p>
<p>And they can be very bossy towards me. Though I fully admit, sometimes I have no idea what I’m doing as far as tech stuff. My youngest doesn’t want to just fix it for me, he wants to teach me how to do it so I don’t keep asking him. But I want him to do it for me, I’m lazy and I’ll forget. He can be so bossy to me!!</p>
<p>There are times when using the phrase “Bossy Boots” strikes the right chord. </p>
<p>Also singing the theme song from Malcolm in the Middle - “You’re not the boss of me…” is helpful.</p>
<p>(just trying to lighten the mood, while telling bossy young people to back off.)</p>
<p>Niquii, I’m still waiting for your explanation of why fictitious women are called “pushy,” but otherwise identical fictitious men are not called “pushy,” for exactly the same behavior, namely negotiating salary. I’d like to know what your explanation is, other than that we have one standard for women’s behavior and another for men’s behavior.</p>
<p>These reasons in the article Nice Girls Don’t Ask rather than the reason you provided, Cardinal Fang, are what I agree with more. You insinuated that women don’t negotiate in fear of being called pushy. I do not feel that is a major reason. </p>
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<p>Source: <a href=“Nice Girls Don’t Ask”>http://hbr.org/2003/10/nice-girls-dont-ask/</a></p>
<p>Another article talking about how women do not ask, which is crucial in closing the wage gap: <a href=“Ask For A Raise? Most Women Hesitate : NPR”>Ask For A Raise? Most Women Hesitate : NPR;
<p>Thirdly, here is a reason that I have previously posted:
The business world has always been dominated by men. Social norms have generally been focused on the men. Men have a higher-paying job. Men have more power. Men make the final decisions. These norms are not accurate in this day and age; however, they are still present and known, whether one necessarily believes in them or not. </p>
<p>The Strong Woman is becoming more and more ever present and I do not feel that business world (or political word for that matter) knows how to deal with her. It does not know how the social interactions in the work place will change, how the dynamics will shift, how the power will level out. It is an unknown. </p>
<p>Now, just because the world isn’t ready does not mean strong women should hang back and wait until their time. No. I am a revolutionary at heart and believe the one can induce a change. Women should ask for more. They should be as aggressive as need be. </p>
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<p>Doesn’t help much if you act as aggressive as the guys and don’t get hired because of it, though, does it? </p>
<p>You don’t need to be aggressive as the guys. </p>
<p>You need to be as aggressive as need be. You need to go in with a game plan that leaves you walking out with a salary that you want. </p>
<p>You know all those statistics about how successful girls have become in the last few years? Like, there’s 58% females and 42% males who graduate every year, or something like that. Or, how about the number of girls in a talented and gifted classes? Girls probably represent 75% of those classes. And the only boys who go in that direction are rather quiet, super diligent guys who are likely to study engineering or computer science. </p>
<p>I KNOW there’s still a lot of inequality in the pay structure and lots of inequality in the number of girls at the top, in part because girls DO tend to be more nurturing and some of those fields simply don’t very much. But aside from that, please also consider what all of this ra-rah girl-power has been doing to the guys. I’m not talking about the super macho football player guy, since he’s been uneffected by the girl-power trend. I am talking about the quiet but smart guy. He’s now being pushed aside in the name of “it’s overdue”.</p>
<p>My point: who’s representing the boys the way Sheryl Sandberg and Gril Scouts of America are speaking up for girls. BSA has had to deal with a whole different issue with their stupid ban on gay leaders. And the YMCA has as many girl-specific programs, maybe even more, than boy-specific programs. Can you think of a single person who just tells kids, ALL kids, this Ban Bossy message: be confident, don’t be afraid of making a decision, and when you are in a position of leadership remember to think of the others you are leading. </p>
<p>Sheryl: it’s not just one gender who need to hear this message!!!</p>
<p>Do many men even use the word “bossy?” I really don’t recall hearing it used much at all, other than with between girls, maybe. I’ve heard “you’re not the boss of me” from both genders of youngsters.</p>
<p>I am a woman who really dislikes working with bossy women, so I don’t see why I should be forced to encourage their behavior, or be censored for calling a bossy woman “bossy.” Not that I do, in fact I’m sure I never have, but I think it. I have elected not to work on volunteer committees that are headed by women I am familiar with and consider bossy.</p>
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<p>I agree with this. Since this whole issue came up I’ve been trying without success to recall the last time I heard a man call anyone bossy. I can’t say that there are absolutely no exceptions, but in my experience “bossy” is mostly a term that women and girls apply to each other and not one that men use much. </p>
<p>This thread amazes me. It’s so similar to the way people used to talk about race, when they wanted to deny the existence of a double standard. I sure hope some of you are just pretending not to get the point.</p>
<p>I don’t hear bossy too much applied to. Adults. But I have heard the other b word used to describe women who dared to act too much like men, just as uppity was used to describe blacks who dared to act too much like whites.</p>
<p>To your dismay Hunt, I have not observed such actions. Throughout my academic life, I’ve had a variety of peer “bosses”. Of all the great leaders I’ve had the chance to work with, some have been men, but the majority have been women. They were organized, dependent, consistent, concise, and inspiring. The young women who held these traits were not called betches or bossy. I’ve had poor leaders who were brash, domineering, blunt, and discouraging. If they were male, they were referred to as a duck. If they were female, they were referred to as a betch. Poor leadership was recognized. </p>
<p>One thing I’ve noticed in a couple recent feminist movements is that speakers for the movement or those in favor of it want what the men have. There is nothing wrong with that. You want equal pay? Continue to fight for it! You want a breakdown of gender stereotyping and roles? Continue to fight for it! But in this case, you want the opportunity to act bluntly and domineering and not receive slack for it? No, I don’t agree with that. I don’t agree with encouraging unhelpful behavior that doesn’t help social dynamics. Discourage the poor behavior. Encourage positive, constructive behaviors, no matter the gender. Just because men are able to do it, doesn’t make the action desirable! </p>
<p>Perhaps, this sheds some light, @CardinalFang, on why I do not agree with your reply earlier on about women not being able to be as aggressive as men. Women don’t need to be as aggressive as men. They need to be as aggressive as need be. The same goes for men. No one enjoys the person who is pushy, overbearing, and unrightfully insistent. </p>