<p>You think some guy who’s been in the Senate for almost 30 years now, whose grandfather and father were both admirals, whose wife is a billionaire, who never had to pay off student loans, etc. is more in touch with average people?</p>
<p>Obama had to make his own success while McCain was born in such a great position that it would have been almost impossible for him to have not succeeded in life. I think that more people could relate to Obama’s story than they can to McCain’s. The only reason why this is not the case right now is because of Obama is African-American and had a rather untraditional childhood. Once people get over that, they will be able to better relate to him.</p>
<p>Yes. McCain lived the life of the average young officer in his early days in the Navy. Given the fact that he married a lady w/ two kids already, I’m sure they had their share of budget issues.</p>
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<p>No special priveledge for admission to The Naval Academy (I’ve known of legacies who were not admitted). Did Obama have anything come his way as a result of Affirmative Action? Just asking.</p>
<p>But if you want to talk about scratching & clawing your way back from an abyss to a successful & productive life - how low on the totem pole is a POW cell in Hanoi?</p>
<p>It’s ironic to paint McCain as priveledged & Obama as “long suffering”.</p>
<p>As a military wife I am in agreement with bz…he might not have ever worked for Family Services or Support, but all commanders are briefed often and consistently by the FSG. As a matter of fact FSG is an integral part of the deployment briefing.</p>
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<p>Let me give you examples of what a commander must do during their command: 1. 24/7 on call, commanders are the 1st to show up at the hospital when any servicemembers family is brought in…i.e. our DD was bitten 3 x by a copperhead snake taken to the hospital by ambulance w/DH, by the time I arrived 30 min. later the Commander had already been there to check in on our DD, removed DH from flying for the next day and had his wife set up a family support for babysitting and meals. The squadron has over 150 military members, we are just one. When any member has a problem they are there night or day, it’s apart of the job. McCain did this as a commander 2. They are a CFO. Commanders are given yearly budgets…they can’t ask for more money, they need to squeeze every dime out when it comes to parts, man hours, and fuel in a flying world. If they don’t get the hours than they are in trouble and can lose command, they go over budget and the same is true. It is a tightrope. 3. They are the CEO and responsible for getting their members promoted and to insure that they are prepared for their next assignment. This means they also need to sign off on every enlisted or officer revew (1 for every yr, plus a 6 mos review for a new member) They sign off for every additional military education. They sign the award/medal recs for every member. 4. Commanders also get a 1st hand look at how underpaid military members are, how for decades they have qualified for food stamps, which makes him well qualified to understand the poor. Just FWIW most young enlisted not only qualify for food stamps, but also WIC. We do try to take care of our own…the NCO’s have a fund to assist that the Officers contribute to, the wives group also contribute the old fashion way bake sales and car washes.</p>
<p>So newjack…being a commander gave him even more experience with the real people.</p>
<p>So it is his fault that he decided to go to a service academy and not a public college? Granted he had no student bills to pay, but I think being a POW in a cell wasn’t worth the bills.</p>
<p>I also think you need to get a reality grip on what the military is paid. Daddy Dearest and grandpa were admirals…an 0-10 (4 star) with 30 yrs of service makess @ 168K in 2008. Nowhere near Trumps level. That also puts them at the age of at least 51 when they retire…granted they get 75% retirement…that means 120K(which is taxable income) and the minute they die the spouse no longer recieves the pay!
Second, a 2nd Lt. in 2008 will make 30668.40, plus flight pay of 1500. Whopping total of 321684 in a starting salary, no raises except yearly cost of living for 2 years. Go ahead and survive on that for a family of 4. Not an easy feat!</p>
<p>SO you betcha I think he gets the meaning paycheck to paycheck…worse yet as a military member if you bounce a check you have to explain it to your boss! I am pretty sure GE executives don’t counsel their employees for bouncing a check. We have a joke about writing checks on the 30th and the 14th of every month it is called hot check…we only get paid 2x a month the 1st and the 15th…GForbid it is amonth that we have to go 5 weeks it really can hurt!</p>
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<p>Really? How many people can relate to an ivy league education? Do not mis-interpret this as a slam, it is meant to say he got an ivy, GBless. How many people do you know that has a good friend who could afford to buy the lot next door and resell a portion of it to you? Crap my family would tell me, I know you love the house, but we can’t help. I can’t even imagine asking friends of 20 yrs to help me out…can you?</p>
<p>marite - thanks for the info. I strongly disagree w/ some of the points in the first article tho’, specifically the “problems” w/ the proposed of the League of Democracy. I don’t see those supposed problems (IF they were to arise) as things that could really affect the success of the endeavor.</p>
<p>About the timetable - looking at a 16-month withdrawal, the fact still remains that McCain would be the better Commander-in-Chief to oversee the operations & address any problems which might arise in the process.</p>
<p>Marite I agree…Obama has been far more gracious than McCain without a doubt and I respect him for that. My only question is if you were Obama and everything from the media recently has been glowing would you get down in the dirt? I sure wouldn’t! </p>
<p>I think what is interesting is the media is now being attacked in polls in many ways about the way they are reporting. The polls are now saying 44% of Americans believe the media is in the tank for Obama. The statistical amt of Obama coverage is astronomical compared to McCain. When sr. exec. acknowlege that Obama is a phenom and McCain isn’t creates issues with how you run a campaign. Then add into the equation that Obama with all of the pos. press is only 6% ahead of McCain.</p>
<p>I think very shortly it will not be about the candidates themselves, but how the media covers the candidates.</p>
<p>Obama has been the target of pretty vicious criticism. I did not think the New Yorker cover in the least funny. But he only expressed disappointment.</p>
<p>bz: I think the role of a president and c-i-c is to set the correct policy. Implementation should be left to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and commanders on the ground in the case of military decisions, and to the cabinet and other members of the staff working together with Congress in the case of non-military issues. I really do not see how McCain has proven himself superior in the one area that is supposed his strength-- i.e. foreign policy. As I said, he has had to play catch up on all the important issues of our day.</p>
<p>As far as the League of Democracy, I give it even less chance of success as the League of Nations, but a lot of chance of antagonizing those countries that would not be in it. Which do we want to exclude? Which do we need if we want to address important issues?</p>
<p>What I think you are talking about is trying to defend Obama and diminishing McCain at all costs. That’s not the way I operate. So let’s agree not to engage in further discussion.</p>
<p>I understand you are an Obama supporter, I have no intention or desire to change your opinion. I do agree with Marite, you can support Obama better by highlighting his accomplishments than by slamming McCain. Thus, I must ask what is it about why you have such hatred for this man?</p>
<p>No, not at all. I have merely said why I prefer Obama to McCain. And the talk of the community organizer and helping real people was to illustrate a philosophical point. It has little to do with Obama and McCain.</p>
If I were a McCain supporter, I would desperately hope that this is true. The last thing I would want is any attention at all on the candidates themselves. Throwing mud in all directions is the tactic of the undeserving. It appears to be the tactic of the McCain campaign.</p>
<p>I assume this works both ways? If so, then someone needs to talk to McCain, who’s been wasting a lot of energy lately slamming Obama. … As for Newjack–his posts have been downright mild compared to the high-octane vitriol that’s routinely spewed all over Obama by other CC posters. (Now, don’t get your feathers in a ruffle. Whoever you are, I’m talking about someone else! :D) So, what I’m getting from this discussion is that it’s OK to throw everything but the kitchen sink at Obama, accuse him of everything short of murder … but we’d better tread lightly when it comes to McCain? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>You have GOT to be kidding!
YOU’RE the one who brought up the subject of “priveledge”.</p>
<p>It’s obvious you couldn’t counter my assertions and now are just looking for an excuse to disengage. That’s fine, but do not dare to accuse me of prejudice in order to accomplish that goal. That’s really offensive.</p>
<p>BTW, if I were guilty of what you’re accusing me of, I would be prejudiced against something, not prejudiced towardsit.</p>
<p>You’re out of touch if you consider affirmative action to be a privilege.</p>
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<p>Just to be clear, I literally mean you are prejudiced against Obama. I am not saying you are a racist or that you dislike Obama because he doesn’t look like you. I am saying you dislike Obama because he is Obama.</p>
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<p>My bad. By the way, did you mean “privilege” when you said “priveledge?”</p>
<p>Let’s not argue about grammar and spelling.</p>
<p>NJ - my last post was pretty quickly done w/out proofing, but I bet I’ve misspelled “privilege” for years - I’ll be more conscious of it from now on - thanks.</p>
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<p>Now you accused me of being “prejudiced” after I asked if anything came Obama’s way as a result of AA - not sure what you mean by the above, but let’s move on.</p>
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<p>If giving special consideration to someone b/c of their race is not a “privilege”, I don’t know what is.</p>
<p>Again, I simply think that you are voting against Obama because he is Obama and you don’t like him. You hold everything and anything against him.</p>
<p>Personally, I am not against McCain because he is McCain. As I said earlier, I am not voting for him because I simply don’t think he’s smart enough for the job. If someone could convince me otherwise, I would reconsider my vote for Obama.</p>
<p>I don’t think anything could make you reconsider your vote against Obama.</p>
<p>Maybe b/c I’ve already been where you are now. I’ll admit I was intrigued by this new “rising star” on the political stage. I listened to him, watched the debates, researched his policiies, read some excerpts from his books & even had some lengthy conversations w/ my mom & others who thought they were going to vote for him way back when. (btw, my mom can’t stand him now & flips the channel whenever he’s on). </p>
<p>I’ll admit also, that it was a tough sell b/c I’m a staunch Conservative (I believe strongly in smaller government, lower taxes, less government intervention in our lives & self determination). I also thought McCain should’ve been elected in 2000, so I planned to support him if he got the nom - but that wasn’t always a given. Anyway, I really do think I gave the guy a fair shake - all things considered, he just doesn’t pan out favorably against my man, John.</p>
<p>I considered a vote for Obama - reconsider? You’re right, it’s doubtful.</p>
<p>I try to keep an open mind, but McCain comes out on top every time!</p>
<p>bz2010, you say that you have paid close attention to Obama and listened to him. If you have, whether you agree with him or not, it must be obvious to you that he is clearly a very intelligent and articulate person. Seeing that, why would you ask whether he was beneficiary of AA? Clearly he was qualified for admission at the schools he attended. (Keep in mind that in 1980, when Obama applied for transfer to Columbia, Columbia was the least selective of any of the Ivies, in a part because it was then the only remaining all-male Ivy.)</p>
<p>I mean - its not like George W. Bush, where we know from his own statements that he was a poor student, and it is thus obvious that his legacy and likely development status contributed to his admission to Yale and Harvard.</p>