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<p>Money isn’t praise. It’s remuneration. I did more so I got more. I will do even more to get even more.</p>
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<p>I fully agree with this…too many employers and parents don’t realize this.</p>
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<p>I agree with this, but then we get criticized for coddling kids’ self-esteem.</p>
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<p>There’s a difference between giving praise for a job well done and the effort made, and telling kids they did a great job when they didn’t, which I’ve heard a lot of parents do. False or excessive praise creates all kinds of problems for a kid, not least of which is lower self-esteem, because parental feedback doesn’t match that coming from more objective sources or their own sense of accomplishment. That’s when they start to think that their parents love them only when the do things well.</p>
<p>That’s why I think the birthday card incident is being way overblown. I agree with Sophia and find silly the idea that kids might be scarred by that kind of reaction. I second the poster who said said you have to have the full picture, Chua probably praised her kids plenty as well as criticized, making the positive reinforcement all the more meaningful. I don’t know if it came across in the book, but in her interview Chua claimed to have lots of funny and loving moments with her kids. I believe it.</p>
<p>Totally agree with the importance of intrinsic motivation. Although we are all a combination of both, the greater the intrinsic part, the greater the effort and perseverance, and of course, enjoyment of the task. That’s why I believe awards and competition are way overemphasized in schools. And I disagree with Chua if she was measuring her kids success by always comparing them to others, IF that was the case.</p>
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<p>Yes. Though, there have been a few books recently that suggest that any praise somehow can hurt a child. However, I agree with your view. Praise is normal and important in all relationships, but it has to be genuine.</p>
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<p>Oh really? That is one of the most absurd statements I’ve ever read. I’m not doubting that there is some book some place that says this but seriously…ANY praise can hurt a child…come on.</p>
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<p>Chua told the girls they were required to be the #1 student (not just all A’s, but #1) in every subject except gym and drama. I think I’d consider that measuring her kids’ success by always comparing them to others.</p>
<p>One thing that I think that sometimes we, as parents, lose sight of is that there are many teachable moments, and most of them will not be as ‘overt’ as the birthday card incident. I’m sure some of us would feel that if we didn’t say something, as Chua did, about the birthday card, then we might feel that we wouldn’t be teaching our children generosity, respect, and gratitude. But that one moment is one of many to teach those values. If she had simply said ‘thank you’ at that moment, but found other ways to teach those values at other moments, then I don’t think she would have dropped the ball, so to speak. It’s that feeling that every moment has to be a perfect, teachable moment that probably drives parents like Chua–they idea that if you ‘give in’ for even just one moment, then you’ve lost everything. Sure, you need to be consistent, but not as driving as this.</p>
<p>I think another thing parents lose sight of is that there are many second chances in life. </p>
<p>I also think that sometimes parents lose sight of the fact that we may not see the results of our parenting until after 18 or 19 years–or maybe more. I’ve felt for a long time that my kids weren’t understanding certain things, that they were too entitled and self-centered. But in the last year, I’m starting to see that my oldest is starting to get it. I think this is especially true for kids who are bright and mature for their age–they may seem more adult-like than other kids, and it some ways they are, but it doesn’t mean that don’t still need to grow up. So there’s a sense I get here that the kids needed to be tiny adults all the time.</p>
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<p>Are you suggesting that Chua would describe her parenting style as plenty of praise for good work, coupled with criticism for not-so-good work (e.g., lower than #1)? Huh. She must have just conveniently forgotten to put that in the book, I suppose.</p>
<p>I want to clarify my earlier post - I did not mean to suggest that scientists, technical people etc. are all that we need, but they are much needed to keep us competitive as a country. China is projected to overtake the US in number of patent applications this year, they are second in the world for publication of science and engineering papers - we’re still first but we are beginning to see just how big our global competition can be. Moving forward in areas such as these requires a very high level of skill (excellence if you will, since Chua is so big on excellence and being #1). My argument is that her version of being #1 only counts when people are looking. In much of what is important work - no one is watching and waiting to give you a round of applause.</p>
<p>In reading that very long book about the 1918 flu (which killed approximately 25% of the world’s population) the scientists looking for a cure started in darkness. Their personal sacrifice in search of the flu virus and subsequent vaccine was extraordinary and the world is a different and better place because of them. Our healthcare research, in many ways, began with their work. This to me is an example of passion, of excellence, of extraordinary talent put to good use. Can you imagine if everyone lived their lives thinking “I can’t go into public health (or whatever other worthy pursuit) there are no award ceremonies for that!”?</p>
<p>I realize that some people do respond to random comments of praise and admiration - such as company policy of congratulating everyone for something every week. Maybe I’m weird, but I don’t get it. I know if I’m doing a good job, I don’t need someone to tell me about it because it’s part of their job description under “motivating the little people”. I positively abhor those “motivational sessions” cooked up by managers of human capital. I’ve never seen a poster at Despair.com that I didn’t find absolutely hilarious. I don’t consider myself pessimistic. Go figure.</p>
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<p>No, at work you don’t know you are doing a good job until someone(boss) has told you that you are doing a good job.</p>
<p>I will give you an example. I just gave my head of finance an average rating. She told me that she got my budget and forecast all straightened out this year, and she felt she had done an excellent job. I said to her, “yes, but your staff is subpar, you are a one man show, and to me that’s not a job well done.” In this case, it didn’t matter she knew she had done a good job.</p>
<p>For all of those “little people” who received random praises, they are getting a very nice bonus this year to go with those random praises. I think my colleagues would be extremely hurt to think someone thought they were “little people.”</p>
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<p>Well, Pizzagirl, seeing as you stated that you haven’t read the book either, I assume you don’t have the complete picture any more than I do. Many of her harshest critics on this thread have not read the book and are basing their opinions on the attention-grabbing excerpts reprinted in the reviews. At least two recent posters that HAVE read the book say people here are distorting or misinterpreting the whole picture. That’s the sense I get from listening to one of Chua’s interviews. </p>
<p>[NPR</a> Media Player](<a href=“http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=132908322&m=132903886]NPR”>http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=132908322&m=132903886)</p>
<p>And reading Sophia Chua’s public letter to her mother:</p>
<p>[Daughter</a> of Amy Chua, who wrote ‘Why Chinese Mothers are Superior,’ responds to controversy - NYPOST.com](<a href=“http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/why_love_my_strict_chinese_mom_uUvfmLcA5eteY0u2KXt7hM]Daughter”>Why I love my strict Chinese mom)</p>
<p>In which she recalls a competition where her mother reassures her that the outcome didn’t matter because she worked as hard as she could.</p>
<p>People can disagree or not with how she handled particular situations taken out of the full context, but the assumptions of “abusive”, “dysfunctional”, “creativity-quashing” and many others, are, imo, out of line.</p>
<p>China overtaking us in patent applications doesn’t seem so scary when you consider that they have more than three times our population.</p>
<p>No, wildwood, I have stated several times on this thread that I have indeed read the book, so I am not just speculating. In fact I read it the day it came out (see post 333).</p>
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<p>Regardless of whether you need praise from others as an adult, I think positive reinforcement from a parent is essential for the development of a child. That doesn’t mean saying everything is great when it isn’t, however. In fact, I think people who are more needy for awards as adults may have been denied positive reinforcement that as a child. Just a theory.</p>
<p>Chua is obviously way off the deep end. I don’t think the fact her kids are successful means that much, either. Just by inherited intelligence and affinity for school, I would expect the kid of a Yale Law professor to be very successful in school.</p>
<p>Quote from Post #1273: "China overtaking us in patent applications doesn’t seem so scary when you consider that they have more than three times our population. "</p>
<p>This comment reminds me of a story heard long ago…One day, a guy was trying to steal a bell from a house. He was afraid of been caught. So he stuffed his ears with cotton balls and then went on with his business. The minute he took the bell and trying to sneak away from the house, he was caught. …“Darn, how in the world I got caught? I thought I have covered up pretty well”, said the thief … </p>
<p>The moral of the story: We can keep a blind eye (or death ears) on our own shortcomings. Even if we try to hide them, they are in the plain sight for everyone else.</p>
<p>China used to be the most advanced nation in the world in science and technology. However, the arrogance and failing to realize its own weakness and it refused to learn from other nations was the main cause for China to be left behind and became the Sick Man of the East. It is imperative that we learn from the mistake made by China in the past.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, my apologies, I confused you with someone else. I was not on this thread way back in the 300s.</p>
<p>But I do refer to posters who’ve read it (Dandemom and RedDinosaur) and suggest that the book is not meant to be a guide to parenting, or a cut and dry story about how she browbeat her kids into submission. </p>
<p>Now I feel I really have to read the full book to evaluate for myself the nuance.</p>
<p>Oldfort - I have found many “performance improvement” programs insulting to the intelligence of the employees they supposedly motivate. Sounds as though you work in a more objectively quantifiable work environment (not the type of management model that tends to do this). People who work independently for the most part (as I do) had better know when they are doing a good job because if they don’t the negative results are a long time coming and often take much longer to repair. </p>
<p>I’m all for acknowledging high performers - genuinely and for things other than just doing their job - but regular doses of programmed positivity ring false.</p>
<p>Okay, so now I’ve read it and can give a more informed opinion. The first adjective that I’d use to describe the author is HONEST. She came across as self-deprecating, self-aware and didn’t seem to whitewash her obsessive behavior or her kids’ negative responses to it. I thought her effort to contrast Chinese vs Western parenting beliefs (although she makes clear at the beginning that it is not a strictly ethnic thing) was humorous and right on at times. She clearly acknowledged that great people can emerge from the Western style (her husband was one) but she made a personal decision to follow Chinese parenting as she clearly appreciated her own upbringing.</p>
<p>As for the praise issue, it was apparent that she wasn’t all criticism:</p>
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<p>My impression was that the girls were in no way afraid of her, at least not more than any kid who should be afraid of the parental power to impose reasonable consequences for disobedience. All through it, Lulu stood up to her at times in a way, I believe, she wouldn’t have had she not been confident of her mother’s love. The question then becomes: Were Chua’s demands on her children over the top?</p>
<p>I think the answer to that is all relative. Chua is clearly obsessed with her kids becoming musical virtuosos. Reading the book, I felt I could relate to Chua and know that I have some “Chinese mother” in me, but I felt alluded to as a Western parent when at the beginning she said:</p>
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<p>But then, my children will never play at Carnegie Hall or win prizes. One is too busy to play in college but intends to go back to it for enjoyment later on. And the other does continue to play and take lessons at her school.</p>
<p>Just as my kids no longer resent me for having been strict about practice, neither of Chua’s kids seem to hold a grudge either. I believe the Coda to be true when rebellious Lulu, now deciding for herself how much to play violin and tennis, says, “Don’t be ridiculous, of course I’m glad you forced me to play the violin.”</p>
<p>I do disagree with some of her strategy, the competition infused into their striving, and her fear of Lulu’s reaction to failure (obviously an important part of being strong and successful). But in the end, Lulu showed herself to be resilient and in no way fragile when she started out losing at tennis. I do think that it was the work ethic that was instilled in her by her mother that led her progress so rapidly.</p>
<p>Oh, and regarding the birthday card incident (2 pages worth of context) I totally got Chua’s reaction and do think it is laughable that people think the incident could be negative for the children long term. I think more hurtful was the episode with their grandmother’s funeral when she yelled at them for the weak “speeches” they had prepared. In the end, however, the girls are probably grateful that they had to redo their remarks which will be remembered as heartfelt and moving.</p>
<p>I read Chua’s book – it’s very clear that she loves her children, and I feel that people are nagging too hard on her mistakes, to be honest. It’s obvious that Chua would have done a few things differently in hindsight, but overall I think she’s done a <em>lot</em> right for her kids.</p>
<p>I think tiger parenting certainly has its merits – but to be fair, I fear it can be leveraged by less-intelligent households to justify outright abuse. If you’re going to be extremely strict and demanding, at the same time I think you need to show a lot of love.</p>