<p>“If someone has a loss from their rental property, that is actually already factored in … it is an adjustment to the AGI.”</p>
<p>Aren’t there some kind of income limits to making an adjustment to the AGI for a loss from rental property?</p>
<p>It’s really hard to believe that a college would actually review someone’s
business records to the point of requiring mileage receipts etc. Any
business can have wide disparities from year to year, sometimes planned
sometimes random. It would be very time consuming, complex operation
to review the records of most small business, especially over a period of
several years. I can’t believe that most finaid officers would have the
resources or training to do that job. If you have legitimately filed with the
IRS, copies of all filed documents should be sufficient. Questions about the
details are the responsibility of the IRS not the colleges. It feels discriminatory,
do they do this to rich folks? As a college administrator this kind of approach,
especially if done on a regular basis with a specific subset of applicants would
raise concerns about a law suit.</p>
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<p>Zillow.com is not very accurate in my experience, and is slow to react to changing market conditions. I would use it if it is advantageous, but ±10 to 20% is a pretty large spread.</p>
<p>I own some rentals, and the areas they are in have been very hard hit by the crashing of the real estate market (virtually every sale that could be used as a comp has been a foreclosure), to the point where I owe more than the properties are worth. This triggered an alert when I filed the forms; who knows whether the schools accept your numbers - maybe they use zillow too, and come up with their own number.</p>
<p>The killer is depreciation, which many (Profile) schools will add back to your income because they consider it to be a “phantom” expense - in theory you didn’t actually spent any money paying that expense. It is not an entirely accurate viewpoint, but what can you do.</p>
<p>Speedo, probably because most people would structure businesses to show paper loses to limit tax implications, but that does not necessarily give a clear picture of what is actually available to tap for college expenses. If a college is going to fund someone’s education or are responsible for dispursing federal dollars then I’m not sure I see where the conflict is…not saying I like the system, but not sure it’s discriminating. My parents refused to fill out financial aid forms back in the day because they felt it wasn’t the schools “business” to “know” their financial situation. People still have the opportunity to not ask for financial aid but most people are sending their kids to schools that they might not necessarily be able to write full tuition checks…</p>
<p>How about they hire some more finanical aid advisors then you wouldnt have to be in a rush. If the school was not so cheap and money hungry for profits then school would be fine.</p>
<p>These are not even schools just money hungry corporations. How are they going to have only four advisors for over 40,000 students theyre idiots.</p>
<p>Sike, a couple decades ago it was rare for kids to have finanical aid. The bill came, it got paid before one could go to classes. Only a very small number of very finanically limited kids were able to go to college. If you couldn’t afford college you didn’t go. Financial aid is a benefit to the students first and foremost, it is not a “right” to receive aid. Be grateful there are four people working their tail ends off to try to get students like you finanical help. You really need to think about your attitude and work hard for it not to spill over onto the people that will be able to help you. You know the old saying “don’t bite the hand that feeds you.”</p>
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</p>
<p>You’re right, sike97. How stupid and rude of them to expect any sort of documentation, verification or correction of your financial status. If I were you, I would refuse this school’s generous free ride offer and take my “business” elsewhere. As you noted in your original post, there’s a community college somewhere you can attend.</p>
<p>I suspect we’re not getting quite the correct details here from the op,
That said, momofthreeboys statement is incorrect. It was a lot easier
to get finaid a couple of decades ago and it went a lot farther, and
a lot of financially limited kids were able to go to college. As for Whatever
the college did require considerable documentation, the question is how
much and how far should they go.</p>
<p>Speedo, If they are asking for the purpose of federal funds, then there are restrictions and guidelines that cover what they can ask for. If it is institutional funds, then there are no restrictions. It is the school’s money and they can require any type of documentation they want to justify why they should give away their money to someone.</p>
<p>Kelsmom,</p>
<p>I feel for you…whole-heartedly. I always recommend a financial aid applicant spend some time as a work-study in FA Offices so they can understand the process from the inside. If only students and parents understood the scrutiny that FA Adminstrators were under and the personal liability we face for incorrectly awarding federal aid, maybe then our jobs would be a tad bit easier.</p>
<p>sike,</p>
<p>No Financial Aid Counselor likes to ask for additional documentation. We do not like to scour over tons and tons of additional forms, letters, etc. If we could get away with it, we would never request verification from anyone. Point of the matter is, though, we are under federal requirements to clear up ANY discrepancy that is reflected in the FAFSA. Failing to do so can result in a super huge fine for the school AND a large fine and/or jail time assigned to the counselor by the federal government.</p>
<p>Financial Aid Offices are also the least funded office on ANY college campus. We are also the most overworked and underappreciated group on ANY college campus. We are usually the last department allowed to higher additional staff when enrollment increases…and that is overall enrollment, not just the number of aid applicants. </p>
<p>But 40,000 students and only 4 counselors sounds like an extreme exaggeration. There may be only 4 counsleors who physically meet with students but there are most likely many more who process the FA applications. Larger institutions have specialized counselors…ones who handle just the verification process, just loan certification, just award calculations, just Pell issues, just PJ requests, etc.</p>
<p>well at least you have a steady job. Sounds like more business coming
your way</p>
<p>Speedo,</p>
<p>Yes, it means a steady job, and job security. However, when parents and students are inconsiderate, over-demanding and expect us to handle everything as though they are our only student, we get a bit…angry?</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong…those of us who are in financial aid do it because we LOVE the work we do. I’ve worked many different career fields and have not found any as rewarding as this one. There aren’t many careers that allow you to see lives changed. It is a wonderful feeling when I look at an 09-10 FA applicant’s whose income has almost doubled because they are working on their degree. Or a recent Bachelor’s graduate who received a super promotion at work and is now returning to complete their Master’s degree…especially when the student started the Bachelor’s program receiving welfare benefits and is now making a decent 5 figure income.</p>
<p><a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;
<p>Here’s an interesting article regarding trends in financial aid. Available aid of various types state/fed/institutional rose rapidly in the late 70s (after many of “us parents” finished up the BA/BSes) and stagnated briefly in the 80s then starting rising again.</p>
<p>And now for the fine print,</p>
<p>“the increase in grant dollars covered an average of about a third of
the increase in private college tuition and fees and half of the increase
in average public four year tuition and fees.”</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>“In the 1970’s and 80’s most aid programs were designed to increase access
to college to students who would otherwise be unable to afford to enroll. In
recent years student aid programs have been focused increasingly on affecting
students’ choice of institutions and on reducing the financial strain on middle
income families.”</p>
<p>The op has a little bit of a right to the chip on his shoulder.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I can’t imagine any rational reason why the OP should have a chip on his shoulder. He’s getting a tremendous amount of money to have access to a highly reputable 4 year college as he stated he’s getting practically a free ride if his financial aid application is/was correct. He’s jumping right over the option to go to a community college and transfer exactly because of the way the current financial aid system is and yet he’s feeling that he is being unfairly treated because they are verifying his information.</p>
<p>I also think it’s possible the school has more than 4 counselors - the rest were most likely tied up with the behind-the-scenes work. I hope the OP is more frustrated than he is ungrateful. I suspect that is probably the case. We aid officers get frustrated, and the customers we serve get frustrated … it’s the nature of the beast.</p>
<p>You are right, kelsmom. I have a saying I use in my office when the staff become overly frustrated…98% of our students are wonderful every time we process their aid…1% are truly confused and are honestly seeking answers, they aren’t realy trying to be pains or difficult, just understand the process…0.5% aren’t sure what questions they have so it seems like they are being difficult when that isn’t their intention and 0.5% are purposely being difficult and short. It always helps us keep our frustrations in check.</p>
<p>Like I said these schools are just corporations that is the capitalistic greedy american spirt. Why doesnt the government give us all free education like in other countries. Our tax dollars in America are being thrown in Wars, Greedy Banks, and all the rest of the crap. A wise man told me it was all a game, just a big hustle. </p>
<p>So is it my fault that 2, 5, or 10 taxpayers have to work that nine da five to help out another american. Is it my fault that these greedy schools get away with these high ass tutition and fees. I already got my crap verified by the damm IRS why do you need to see more?</p>
<p>I mean this finanical aid and college cost in general is what makes students not even want to attend the college they want to go to. Or attend college in general. How about these schools lower the coaches salary and improve the food. </p>
<ul>
<li>Finanical Aid advisors are human im not saying they are something else. Im just saying they are in the belly of the beast, like people who work in the foreclosure part of a bank.
They are always going to have deal with drama because the money is on the table.</li>
</ul>
<p>COLLEGES=CORPORATIONS</p>
<p>I should just move to my cousins house in sweden, heard they get taxed alot but its worth it. Free health, college, dont work nine-five to survive. Whatever.</p>
<p>Ciao!</p>
<p>Well after that sentiment, I don’t think it would bother me a bit if they took your free ride away.</p>
<p>btw you can try Sweden but they probably won’t have you.</p>
<p>I agree. Sike, attitudes like yours are exactly why the average American taxpayer is fed up with entitlements. I wouldn’t hold my breath for any extra aid if that’s the way you’re treating people. I gave you a link so you would clearly understand why FA needed to review your docs. The Dept of Ed has different, and in some ways more stringent, guidelines than the IRS. If it appears that your family doesn’t have the income to live from your tax return, they need to clarify. That’s all. It’s not a tax audit, but a requirement to distribute your aid. If you don’t want the aid, don’t go through the process and quit whining about it. Everyone here has patiently tried to help you and I’m sure the FA people at your school are trying too.</p>
<p>Sike- I don’t get the transition in your attitude, you began this post worried and asking for help, not you are blatantly ****y and have a hostile attitude.</p>
<p>The forms are confusing, people make honest mistakes and some people lie. Finaid offices are charged with the responsibility to help people correct their errors and to catch the cheaters. </p>
<p>A large public will be generally slower and less responsive that a small private- I have had kids at both- but the people working in each office just want to do their jobs correctly. </p>
<p>You stated that you had to redo the form after showing up with a bag full of receipts, wouldn’t it have been easier for the finaid dept to just have had you intuitively do the form properly the first time? But the forms are confusing esp for self employed people so they have an office staffed to help you, but yeah, you needed to wait your turn.</p>
<p>I had a DD at a large flagship public, there were several errors in her aid over the years and even a small appeal once. I never went in, I just handled it via email, provided all copies of tax returns and clarified things as we went along. It was an extra thing to do, but it went smoothly. Any time I pointed out an error (initial years of ACG/SMART there was some confusion) I showed what they had, what I thought she should have as aid and my reasons for thinking that. The person could easily double check the rules and my Dds situation and make a quick decision.</p>
<p>The people working there are just people, no one is setting out to make life difficult for you; they probably just want to get your file dealt with and put away!I would not think of a state school (you did say UW didn’t you?) as an example of capitalist greed. Yeah, if you are attending, say USC and paying the full $50-60k out of pocket whilst some one else gets merit or need based aid, you might feel unfairly treated or feel you are subsidizing others.</p>
<p>In your case, you are asking for govt based need based aid, you have to fill out all the silly papers just the way they want them and you have to be prepared to explain when your numbers don’t fit the usual formula. As a mater of fact, if you went to USC and had an income of $0 or something below the poverty line they would ask you to provide info on monthly income and expenses- they just need to understand how you are living.</p>