Thanks for that article. I might have seen that Denero video as I think the essay I read referred to it. In any case, the situation needed changes so hopefully there will be a notable improvement from the implemented changes soon.
My good friends kid graduated from UCB CS in 2018. She went through the sequence, then worked as a uGSI, and now has a job in industry. The program is still quite good (my friend is cs from MIT and approved) and the kid liked the experience albeit with large classes. Hopefully they’ll be able to preserve the good things of the past along with some added enhancements.
The program is excellent, the professors are amazing, and all of the students my kid has met are just (chef’s kiss)! My kid is in COE and has a roommate that is a CS major and he knows quite a few of these kids… and their credentials and accomplishments never fail to amaze him.
But the department can’t expand this major any further, and with the cost changes since the union decision, they are struggling just to manage the same class sizes they had a few years ago.
There just are SO MANY great kids in CA applying to the same exact CS programs. And especially, lots of smart bay area kids, many of whose parents or relatives already work in this industry (similar to the kid in the article). In the parents’ generation, it was much easier to get into this field, so it’s hard for the parents to understand why their accomplished and well prepared kids have a hard time getting into these programs. The problem is simply that there are SO MANY.
California is a rich state with tech billionaires and 40 years of computer centered development. If it wanted to increase computer science slots at public universities, I am sure it could find a way. Other schools have. Yes, it gets expensive. A large state can support that expense if it is a priority. It does not seem to be.
There are plenty of slots for CS majors at California public universities. But most of them are at places considered insufficiently prestigious or desirable, like SFSU and UCM. Indeed, most of the CSU system is not impacted at the campus level, and these campuses typically do not have CS as an impacted major, so their CS majors are accessible to high school applicants with 2.5 GPA.
Now, if you want a major that is impacted everywhere, try nursing. Even community college ADN programs are selective, in contrast to the open admission for other community college programs.
L&S CS 1,994 which might technically only include 2nd year and up since they have to declare, even with the new HD major policy (??)
(Edit to add, it looks like these are Fall 2022 numbers so yes, this would only include declared CS majors, not undeclared first years)
Here’s a screenshot that I found from one of DeNero’s videos showing how much they had to decrease CS-intended major admission, due to budget and staffing issues.
With this much of a steep decrease and the small number actually admitted, you can understand why many great students would be denied! There are just too many great applicants and too few spots.
As I understand it, the GSI union decison affected all UCs, not just Cal? So this may be affecting CS major admission at all UCs with a popular CS major and a large teaching staff for these courses, but I don’t know much about the other UCs.
4 PIQ along with 20 Activities and Awards - each with a 350 character description.
Students don’t need to cram everything into their PIQ. They have plenty of space to show collaboration, innovation, creativity, leadership, drive, initiative, etc. in the Activities & Awards section.
For those not familiar with the UC application, the A&A section should include
Awards or honors
Educational Prep Programs
Extracurricular activities
Other coursework
Volunteer / Community Service
Work experience
Additionally, there are two sections on the application where a student can add additional comments. In the academic section, the additional comments section is limited to 550 characters. At the end of the application, it literally says, “Additional Comments: If there’s anything else you want us to know about you, now’s your chance.” Limit 550 words.
Yes, they choose which UCs they want to send their application to and pay $80 for each campus they send it to. If a student is either in the top 9% of their HS or top 9% in the state, and they are not admitted to one of the UCs that they applied to, they are guaranteed admission to the UC that has space (whether they applied there or not). Most of the time that is UC Merced. Last year, some ELC students were also offered spots at UC Riverside.
The assumption is that grades are just handed out in schools that aren’t in the Bay Area elite circle is a bit of a leap. Yes, the kid came from a very competitive, rigorous school. But does that make his A more meaningful than the kid that had to work hard to overcome everything else for their education? Apparently not according to AOs.
You may already know that until very recently, students did not apply directly to L&S CS. Students were admitted to L&S (the largest college at UCB), and then would apply to declare the CS major after taking a set of core CS courses and earning a specific grade average in these courses. So there was no specific limit set on the number of students entering the CS major; it was only limited by the number of students able to get the required grades in the intro classes.
However, this became unsustainable in recent years with the sheer number of students wanting to declare CS. The department was not able to keep up with the demand for the required intro courses, and students were unable to get into the courses in order to have the requirements to declare. Even upper division CS classes have been overwhelmed with the number of students.
Therefore, they implemented the new high demand major policy where students must apply directly to the CS major, and drastically reduced the number of CS-intended students admitted, in order to reduce the overcrowding.
Other universities with popular CS majors have also experienced a huge surge of interest in recent years; you can find plenty of other news stories about problems with overcrowding and understaffing at other schools.
As far as I can tell there is really nothing nefarious going on here to deny any specific type of kids admission to these majors. It is just a supply and demand problem. Not enough spots and too many good applicants. The kids getting in to these programs are amazing, great kids.
My S had fabulous stats, but he was waitlisted at UMich. I suppose we could have whined that it was unfair, since students from his school who were less academically qualified were admitted. But we didn’t, especially because there was a reasonable explanation for the waitlist status. He applied only to a particular school within the university - had he checked the box indicating an interest in LS&A, he most likely would have been accepted. The school he applied to had a very low admit rate (I don’t believe that the program offers direct admission to freshmen anymore). 100% of qualified applicants cannot possibly receive admission to programs with very low acceptance rates.
In addition, at a state’s public university, a key component is representing all parts of the state. So, if there were 10 qualified kids from X school and 3 qualified kids from a Peninsula school, 4 may have been admitted from X school and 2 from the Peninsula school.
Because the state includes the Peninsula.
Same thing for UCs: they are the state’s public universities and thus represent the state’s diversity and regions.
In California, the system is very structured, with many opportunities to study fields of interest, even CS, and different paths to admission: top or lower tier UCs, Cal Polys, CSUs, and even CCs with approved courses for a seamless transfer to UCs/CSUs; all have different criteria so you have many shots. On top of it, UCs have a statewide mandate, CSUs have a regional mandate so students always have somewhere to turn.
On this forum we consistently tell students that all universities with a sub20% acceptance must be considered reaches, regardless of stats.
Was the student’s list all reaches (for CS)?
CS is the most competitive major but did this student apply to UCSC (where CS is topnotch, on par with many a flagship’s), all 3 Cal Polys, SJSU, more residential CSUs with honors programs…? Or was UT considered a better choice (I agree it is a topnotch choice)?
Yes, all reaches for CS (defined in terms of 20% or lower acceptance). He applied to MIT, CMU, Stanford, UCB, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, UCD, Cal Poly SLO, Cornell, UIUC, UMich, GT, Caltech, UW Seattle, U Wisconsin, UT, and UMD. (I don’t personally know the Wisconsin or UMD acceptance rates for CS, but the CA schools and most OOS are all 20% or lower for CS…)
He was accepted to UT, UMD, and at least two others from the list apparently accepted him off their waitlists (but we don’t know which ones waitlisted him).
IMHO, he had good results considering the list of schools where he applied, the major he applied to, and the competition for that major.
