Benefits of Being an Athlete

citygirlsmom · July 11, 2006, 4:04pm

latetoschool, my D did, she tried lacrosse, and the deal at the school is, if you get cut from as sport, then track is always open, but this year, so many kids joined track, thsoe that took a chance and tried out for another sport had nothing, unlike in years past. D played soccer for years, did kung fu, dance, ballet, gymnastic, tried it all.

At our school, its golf, bball and vball (which takes kids from club teams pretty much), softball, track, soccer, and swimming…

So yeah, she tried something new, after so many years of soccer, she was hoping for a new eperience, but alas, changing things and traditions an long standing rules with no warning hurt many kids, not jsut her

She loves her horseback lessons and dancing, but they are solo activities to a degree, and aren’t as sportsy as colleges want

It is just that the track for sports in HS start in the first tryouts in fall of Freshman year…it is often the same coaches for fall and spring sports, so they will pick the same girls and boys…so if you don’t make it as a freshman ,you are shut out for the next three years unless you change physically, like shoot up a foot, well you have an opportunity, and colleges just ignore that fact

JeepMOM · July 11, 2006, 4:08pm

LTS bill coming due?? don’t know what you are referring to… but your gal sounds like she had the better of experiences - there are many that are alot less fortunate - believe me.

OOO ya - unrealistic coach - I would actually call him a very stupid coach - uumm 4 trips to the ER in 4 days - temp of 104 for 4 days - out of sport for over a week - loss of a few pounds/loss of practice/taper time - NCAA’s in 10 days - Coach - every day - '‘get in the pool’ or else!! - would call it practice in futility/a no win situation - well - the or else won LOL.

TheKramer · July 11, 2006, 4:11pm

What and bullwinkle’s wasn’t a blanket statement?! Saying essentially that being a student-athlete is never good? latetoschool is right. It depends on the school. Bullwinkle grouped every school and athlete in to one stereotyped, negative group. Sure those statements hold up at some institutions but they are a far cry from reality at others.

JeepMOM · July 11, 2006, 4:11pm

CITY - maybe your gal should consider colleges with equestrian teams - that would be a bonus for her riding - just a thought.

…not as sportsy as colleges want… there are plenty of other things that show a passion by students - and riding and dance certainly can do that for your gal. Not every college student is an athlete - just think how boring that would be - there are sooo many other atributes that the mix of students bring to a college - athletics is only 1 piece of that experience.

If youf gal really does want to be involved in a ‘team’ - there are other ways - besides being on the college varsity team - to achieve that - there are club sports - there are intermural sports - and pick-ups as well. OR - she could be involved in her passions - seek and ye shall find what is good and right for herself.

JeepMOM · July 11, 2006, 4:15pm

KRAMER i certainly did not take BULL’s comments as a blanket statement - but certainly many of the things that were touched on are very true - and even could well be all at one school - or at a compilation of many schools - but many are true.

I certainly did not take it that being a student-athlete is never good - not by any means. It certainly does depend on the school - and not necessarily a stereotypical situation at all. Athletes contribute alot to a school - as do all the other students do - but… some athletes/sports do generate $$$ - which is different kettle of fish to fry.

KRAMER are you - or were you - a college athlete??

Boridi · July 11, 2006, 4:31pm

Is there a reason why you have an excessive amount of dashes in your posts?

JeepMOM · July 11, 2006, 4:36pm

Exercise for the ring finger - I am a competitive dasher…

latetoschool · July 11, 2006, 4:55pm

CGM, I see. If my D had had to try out for high school track vs. being able to just walk on, she probably would not have made that team either. My D is not a natural athlete and has had to train very hard to get and then keep her positions. She got lucky in that a local NFL player’s wife was the head track coach, and this woman was very, very talented. So D became a specialist at hurdles, and by the end of freshman year was in incredible condition. Just in time for tryouts for the sport that would have her competing in college.

As to your D, we have a friend whose daughter was recruiting for D-1 in a sport she has never played. The head coach observed her playing basketball in a community club one day - not planned, just happened to be there and saw her - and recruited her for his team, a sport she had never even considered - and she’s there now on full scholarship. I’m sure if I took a poll of friends we’d find a few more situations like that. So there’s certainly more than one avenue to competing in college, if that’s what your D wishes to do.

And even that can have some surprises - D selected her college because of their pre-med curriculum, and other academic influences, oh and they gave her a lot of money too. But the coaching staff all along basically said things like “we cannot really use you here” and “don’t bother coming here if you expect to compete in college” and “you’re really not cut out for our program” and “your numbers are lower than even our lowest novice” and “you really should take us off your list” and so on. D is really the wrong build and size, and her numbers, coming out of high school couldn’t compete with these other athletes that her college recruits from all over the world.

D had been recruited by several other coaches at other schools, including Harvard, but, after being deferred, then rejected from Harvard, she looked at what was left on the table and so choose her college.

CGM, she got there, walked on, and first semester of freshman year made the top varsity and then the travel squad. By junior year they started giving her money - I haven’t had to buy as much as one text book or provide any financial support at all since end of sophomore year. Next year - her fifth and final year - she’s coaching; it was supposed to be a volunteer position but the head coach pulled her aside just a couple of days ago and said “we think we’ve figured out a way to give you some money”. And I should add that D and this coach are NOT friends - they have a solid mutual respect for each other, but they are very far apart on most major issues, including how to actually execute the sport.

So, CGM, these things have a way of working themselves out even if they take a sort of twisted and weird path getting there; your D is almost certainly in such terrific condition from her sports that if it’s on her wish list to be on a college team it will happen, one way or another, and in fact coaching staff may value her a great deal more since she must be entirely self-motivated, as opposed to riding the coattails of an established team.

JeepMom - what I meant was you said there always seems to be a price to be paid, and it just hasn’t been that way for D. I am very sorry though about your experience - that sounds terrible, and is certainly not how ANY coach of D’s has ever behaved. Not in junior high, high school or college. But I would imagine that perhaps men’s teams may be very different, especially if there is an important win on the line.

bullwinkle · July 11, 2006, 5:07pm

jeepmom- thank you for actually reading my posts.
kramer-not sure what you read or where you draw your conclusions and, again, having played and having had 2 kids play, i think I have basis for an opinion but, in any event, my opinion is not at all as you have taken it.

As an aside, curious as to what sport and division your child plays.

One of mine played baseball. you are required to participate in fall practice (no semester off there). The sport is in season in the spring with over 50 games and practices every non-game day, typically 3-4 games a week-games virtually all weekend, every weekend. You essentially have no time for any other activity of significance period.

Football, basketball, baseball are all pretty much the same thing. These 3 “major sports” as seen by the NCAA- have graduation rates that are a complete embarassment, so much so that there is talk of limiting the seasons-certainly in baseball where, by example a team competing in post season tournaments can go well into July (with school having ended in May and then back for fall practice by September).

In any event, I never said it was the same everywhere (although i know of few exceptions at least as to these three sports and exceptions don’t make the rule in any event).

I also was not intending to make a condemnation (although beyond my own personal experience I know dozens of kids who have played and know VERY few who have seen it through their fours years of eligiblity without getting derailed somewhere along the line for a myriad of reasons).

Actually my point, given what I took as the starting point of this thread is that the perception is pervasive that athletes are pampered, get unfair advantage, get the “free ride”. I see none of that. College athletes work their rear ends off, are expected to make ridiculous committments to their school that is almost immediately forgotten once their eligibility is up. The classes and majors they can take are limited. They are typically restricted from interships, study abroad etc. and often must continue to devote all their time to their sport even during the summer. One of my kids was specifically provided a list of majors that they could NOT take.

I would also note that one of my kids was recruited by over 50 schools (every Pac-10 school, 6 of the 8 Ivies, most of the Big 10 among others) and I’ve talked to enough coaches, players, former players, etc. that I’m willing to stand behind my opinions.

College athletics are no free ride. Full scholarships are rare and a student (especially one playing a “major” sport) had best be prepared to make enormous sacrifice and face the reality that you are an athlete-student not a student-athlete. Coaches care about winning, winning and winning and that you are eligible. It is the rare coach that truly cares about much else. College athletics are major businesses-ask any administrator seeking donations from alumni and the athlete is a fungible part of that business.

JeepMOM · July 11, 2006, 5:15pm

BULL - again - well said. Having been there - done that - from the athlete, parent, student, D1/D3, coaches perspective - year round/seasonal - have pretty much seen all sides of that plate.

latetoschool · July 11, 2006, 7:05pm

Bullwinkle, your experience differs so greatly from mine, and from everyone else I know, that it’s hard to believe we’re even talking about the same thing. I have never met anyone who has had an experience that sounds anything like yours - not saying your account isn’t factual or legitimate, just that it varies sharply from mine.

I will say this - athletic participation, like other areas of the college experience, isn’t something that’s “done to” a student, or inflicted on them. The student athlete is the customer, and the college is selling the product, and any half-way decent relationship in any venue has to be 50-50 overall.

Early on, even back in junior high school, and continuing through the early days of freshman year of college, I always told mine specific to sports “you can always quit. You do not have to stay in this, or in any other activity, should you tire of it or simply just want to go taste something else from the menu - but - make sure you’re getting value out of the arrangement - make sure you’re getting something you need and want, and that you think will have long term payoff. If you’re not getting what you want, either change it from within, or retire the relationship.”.

We have seen many of her friends begin sports in college, only to have quit by junior year, and the majority reason has always been the coaching staff.

But then we also know a lot of parents who have students in the more difficult sports, who are also pulling gpas > 3.0 in engineering and sciences. Some of them are working part time as well.

At the end of the day, these young men and women who are old enough to go off to Iraq, in many cases old enough to drink, marry, be sexually active, enter into financial contracts, choose their medical care, etc. are also old enough to be held accountable and be responsible enough to negotiate the proper balance or exchange of value, and relationship buidling between coaches, teammates and sport, and academic responsibilities: if some activity is out of balance and consuming an inappropriate amount of time and energy out of their total college experience, the real question is - why are they allowing it?

bullwinkle · July 11, 2006, 7:58pm

latetoschool- question for you - what sport and division does your child play and are you otherwise familiar with.

In any event, let me begin with your concluding paragraph. Putting aside your various other references, have you ever played a team sport in college and/or dealt directly with coaches on a daily basis. There is no balancing act. You follow the program or you are gone or never see playing time. Sports are not the place where you rock the boat. You do as you are told. You “take one for the team”. If you want to participate you do so on the coach’s terms. These are not negotiable circumstances. Yes you have the option of quitting. That is, effectively your only option. These programs are not run by the democratic process. You noted yourself that many quit by their junior year and typically because of the coaching staffs. Very true. Having some martinet dictate your life for 4 years typically wears thin for any kid capable of independent thought and who has any interests beyond their sport.

In any event, in what areas do you find my observations so contrary to yours. Time requirements? Most sports are now year 'round. At the intercollegiate level there is typically off season requirements and “in season” requirements. In season, for example, baseball plays 40 to 60 plus games depending on division. Basketball 30 to 40 or more etc.

My son’s schedule last fall was workouts almost daily at 5:30 a.m. to 7:30 then class from 8 to noon and practices or meetings most every day in the afternoon.
In season works outs at 5:30 a.m. practice every non-game day from 1:15 to 5:30+. Games about 4 days a week with a game Friday and double header Saturday or double header Saturday and game Sunday. Plus extra travel days away from school for away game days.

Never got into the hazing that most freshman are subjected to and the extra nonsense of “working” the field, picking up trash, cleaning locker and equipment rooms which most everyone gets to do.

No tutors or advisors or other “perks” that any other student isn’t entitled to. Typically you might get a jacket at the D-1 level. Anything at D-3 you pay for.

As far as grades and graduation rates just check the NCAA web sites. They post the rates typically. Being most familiar with baseball, they are atrocious at the D-1 level and not a whole lot better in D-2 or D-3.

Bottomline, as with Kramer you are missing my point. The initial notion of this thread is that athletes lead a pampered and privileged existance. In my view and experience it is anything but and the demands they face are extraordinary. Unfortunately most have a “rose colored” view of the student-athlete. Try “two-a-day” workouts and some 5:30 a.m. weight training and then having to go to class and do homework and have any social life beyond that.

Again, not sure what sport or division you’re referring to, but I know dozens of kids playing or who have played baseball, basketball, football, soccer in all divisions and it is no picnic by ANY account I have ever heard or experienced.

latetoschool · July 11, 2006, 8:26pm

Bull, my D just completed four years of a year round sport at the D-1 level. Workouts beginning at 5 a.m., six days a week. Weights from 3-5 p.m. four days a week. Plus all sorts of other mandatory training - media coaching, etc.

I recognize NONE of her experiences in anything you have posted, and, she is graduating with a degree in biochem, a second degree in art history, plus four minors, and is above a 3.0 in everything. Plus she has worked part time on campus for anywhere from 4-10 hours per week the past two years. Oh, and at the same time, she served as a committee chair on student senate (finance), was the student senator for athletics, and is also the representative for all sports in the school to the athletic conference - an extra EC that has required several overnight trips to conference headquarters for meetings that last for 2-3 days at a time. Last, she spent far more evenings than I wish I knew about about at various parties and social activities. And she could not possibly be happier, or more thrilled with her college experience.

A lawyer friend of mine once told me - I think she read it somewhere - “if you want something done, give it to a busy person”. Lots of D’s teammates have graduated, or are about to graduate with degrees in difficult majors, while also engaging in other ECs. Perhaps more activity creates energy which drives a person to produce even more? I don’t have any idea as to why we are reporting such disparate experiences, except to say that obviously the schools, sports, coaches, amount of money in the budget, etc. are all mitigating factors, and, the attitude of the student plays a part as well.

Oh - I also know that lots of homework gets done on airplanes.

bullwinkle · July 11, 2006, 8:46pm

latetoschool- still would like to know the sport your D played, which you don’t seem to want to identify. the particular sport can be very important as to the demands on your time and the enviornment you operate in. Is your D’s sport some secret?

Otherwise, you and I are clearly having a parallel discussion. I’ve never said that anything your D has done couldn’t be done. Many have done it. Many do it. My kid’s paths have been similar to what you describe and my son’s motivation has been all the more as he is a professional prospect.

Let me try one last time…my point was that college athletics is an effort not a privileged bed of roses full of perks as was my take on the original premise of this thread-“benefits” of being an athlete. I think we are saying very much the same things. We aren’t reporting disparate views. with all due respect, I think you are simply only reporting one aspect of the total experience one can encounter in college athletics.

And, also, one last time, what sport is it your D played?

emeraldkity4 · July 12, 2006, 12:56am

Jerome K Jerome could give you a hint ;)

bullwinkle · July 12, 2006, 12:29pm

emeraldkity4- thanks for the hint-

so if I get the “hint” correctly late2school - is it crew, sailing or was she a coxswain (or passenger on a cruise ship). In any event, I’m sorry I wasted my time with what was clearly an “apples and oranges” debate. If I’ve gotten the hint correctly you are certainly correct that there is no common basis to our experiences.

latetoschool · July 12, 2006, 12:59pm

Bull, the issue is that you are projecting an air of disapproval and lack of satisifaction of the incredible, almost incalculable, value of sports in college for the student who is also an athlete. Fair enough, if that’s your viewpoint; you’re certainly entitled to have it, and from the sounds of your cummulative experiences, it’s probably somewhat understandable.

But that certainly doesn’t apply to everyone, or, even most people. At the end of the day, if a student doesn’t like being an athlete, or just stone cold decides they like something else better, there are many, many other opportunities to engage in other types of activities on most college campuses.

Last, each person enrolled in a college is ultimately responsible for the experience they have, or fail to have. This is true in life as well: if an engagement, activity, or relationship (business or otherwise) is no longer profitable by whatever standard of measurement is being applied, it’s a pretty easy matter to simply end it, and go do something else. And measurement of profitability is going to be unique to each person, school, coach, sport, whatever. You had an experience or more than one experience that I gather was unprofitable, in terms of net gain in academic achievement. Mine has been awesome, couldn’t be better. Other people might fall somewhere in between. Other people still might have a great experience one year, a horrible experience the next, as factors such as coaching staff, teammates, injuries, and the like are generally changing factors. The great news is that everyone gets to choose.

I’d recommend using some care in issuing blanket statements - or at least be a bit more cognizant that there are young men and women who read these forums, and who may be considering athletic participation in college - it’s totally o.k. and reasonable to share the factually ugly along with the incredibly terrific - but I’m not sure it serves anyone’s interests to be overly negative.

bandit_TX · July 12, 2006, 1:13pm

I find these same benefits in my new employees that have worked their way through college.

bullwinkle · July 12, 2006, 1:19pm

Late- you still don’t get it. Your comments are patronizing and presumptuous. I’ve only tried to point to the reality that student athletes work hard, put in tremendous effort and are not pampered or privileged nor inundated with perks. If you stopped to think for one moment my comments are a compliment to students such as your D who have successfully navigated this process.

Far too many people think that athletes get the “free ride” literally and figuratively. You have taken my comments to be some indictment of college athletics. Never said that. As far as potential student-athlete seeing this thread I’ve got no problem with that. Far too many see only the picutre you want to paint that it is all just rosey. They hear that from recruiters, their parents etc. They think the full rides are out there for everyone and lead to a golden path of success. Rarely do they understand the level of work, sacrifice and obligation that comes with participating in college level sports. You’ve painted that as a negative. It is merely a reality that many ignore.

But, You’re so busy being defensive of “your” experience that you refuse or are incapable of seeing what I am saying. Your one experience is not reflective of the bigger picture. Take a look at the NCAA website, take a look at the graduation figures for major sports.

In any event, it remains fascinating that you still won’t identify the sport your child played.

Best wishes to you. I’m done with this.

latetoschool · July 12, 2006, 1:46pm

Bull, I do get it - sort of - and I actually agree that there is often a very inaccurate, rosy picture painted - especially by coaches in the recruiting process. But I sort of view that as a “buyer beware” condition as well. It’s still the ultimate responsibility of the consumer to ask the right questions and collect enough information to make a solid decision.

Re the aggregate graduate rates, it could theoretically be argued that that is a condition of the participants and their pre-collegiate preparation for both sport and classroom, vs. an indictment of the college or the particular sport, program, coach, etc. And, there’s also the matter that some students stay in school only long enough to be in range of professional opportunities. How can a football player justify staying in school another year or two given the huge amounts of money waiting post-draft? Now, I don’t know much about football - but I can glom from what I see on television that early draft picks are very well compensated, and, if it were my son, I would advise forget the degree and go for the cash (why risk injury and subsequent loss of huge sums of money through two more or even one more year playing for a college - the degree can be picked up later). One of many contributing factors to lower graduation rates; perhaps there are others that may also be based on sound economic reasoning.

Bandix, I have had similar experiences.

Benefits of Being an Athlete

CONNECT WITH US