Berea Named Best Liberal Arts College 2025 by Washington Monthly

I have a Bates grad. I have to disagree with this statement:

I think making a lot of money is one of the top concerns for students going to most of the colleges on any rankings list, and Bates is no exception. Many of my daughter’s classmates went to Bates because it is highly regarded as one of the NESCAC consortium. It is a well connected school. Many kids will graduate and go into very well paid jobs. Some will go to not so well paid jobs. Others will go to grad school. I am not sure why people still have that misperception but I think it goes back to the founding of the college as it was one of the first to admit African Americans and women, who typically did not go on to highly paid jobs.

As for Bowdoin, yes, people go into highly paid jobs, probably more so than Bates or Colby.

7 Likes

Money Magazine took an interesting approach to this a few years ago, publishing a list of what they called “most transformative colleges”, meaning “schools where the 6-year graduation rate is . . . higher than would be expected based on the academic preparation and economic makeup of the university’s student body.” Money has its own formula to determine what “would be expected”. Unfortunately their last list of such schools was in 2020, but it’s interesting to look at because most of the colleges are far from household names. Here are their top 10 nationally:

  1. San Jose State
  2. Maine Maritime
  3. Mount St. Mary’s (MD)
  4. Massachusetts College of Pharmacy & Health Sciences
  5. Cal State Stanislaus
  6. Cal State Northridge
  7. Cal State Fresno
  8. Manhattan University
  9. Cal State Sacramento
  10. Cal State Poly Pomona
3 Likes

And to add, many, many students go to college without a clear idea of their intended major or career path, and many change their majors, so they may not be going to college without the “I want to make a lot of money” mantra. Maybe they want to go to college to get an education, explore lots of academic areas, self growth, self discovery, learn to think critically, etc. And if students all went to college to “make a lot of money”, we would have a further shortage of teachers, performing artists, librarians (which also typically requires an advanced/specialized degree), clergy (also with advanced education) journalists, military officers, etc. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make a lot of money, but not everyone goes to college without that primary focus.

6 Likes

I also have a Bates student who loves being there. I guess I think it’s weird to be motivated by making A LOT of money vs having meaningful work and think that meaningful work part of things captures the Bates ethos.

4 Likes

Again, I ranked by salary..

Every individual is different. I don’t have access issues and coming from a wealthy area, I “assumed” both my kids will graduate.

Of course, every major is different. I assumed my engineer would be ok but I did have strain when he chose Alabama over Purdue. That bias was wrong.

I had strain with my daughter - not for choosing her school although she got into “higher ranked”. My strain was her majors but she showed me wrong. She always had a strong work ethic and determination and perhaps that was most important.

I didn’t use the WM rankings - but of course, if a particular ranking was of interest to a school and I suppose most start with US News, as we’ve seen - any school can game the system - whether or not it’s by practicing to the criteria…or cheating to get there. In my industry, every company rates “best dealers.” Are all best - or do they practice to the test? Are all NMFs the best students - or do they master a test?

The easiest thing to do is simply cheat - and while it’s potentially more than this, we know that:

  • Berkeley
  • Claremont McKenna
  • Columbia
  • Emory
  • GW
  • Oklahoma
  • Southern Cal
  • Temple
  • Villanova

We know that some schools have had phantom classes - UNC, for example. Are they really deserving of a graduation rate, etc.

People will do anything to get to the top - literally.

I once heard (but have never read so maybe it’s unlikely) that a large, public football school once had all its grads give $1 as they walked across the stage - so they could claim a high giving percentage. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t know - but it does seem like the thing a college would do to boost itself in a category.

It’s sort of sad that top names have blatantly cheated - but it shows the power of a certain magazine I suppose.

Now, Northeastern didn’t cheat (that I’m aware of) but it is interesting the strategy their leader enacted - again to US News (not WM or Forbes or Niche):

Freeland swept into Northeastern with a brand-new mantra: recalibrate the school to climb up the ranks. “There’s no question that the system invites gaming,” Freeland tells me. “We made a systematic effort to influence [the outcome].” He directed university researchers to break the U.S. News code and replicate its formulas. He spoke about the rankings all the time—in hallways and at board meetings, illustrating his points with charts. He spent his days trying to figure out how to get the biggest bump up the charts for his buck. He worked the goal into the school’s strategic plan. “We had to get into the top 100,” Freeland says. “That was a life-or-death matter for Northeastern.”

They performed to the test….just like car dealers in my industry do. And like many students do.

The easiest thing to do is simply cheat - and while it’s potentially more than this, we know that:

  • Berkeley
  • Claremont McKenna
  • Emory
  • GW
  • Oklahoma
  • Southern Cal
  • Temple
  • Oklahoma

@tsbna44, are you saying that this is a list of cheaters, or am I misunderstanding? If it’s a list of cheaters, how did Columbia get left off?

2 Likes

“Ranking” aside, its quite a juxtaposition to have New College in FL mixed in with the other schools, given the changes at New college. Point being, students currently looking at some of the other colleges on this list would not likely also be looking at New College.

3 Likes

Yes, when all they are doing is looking in the rear view mirror, they are headed for an accident. They need to keep their eyes on the road and adjust for current conditions. New College is not any more what it once was.

3 Likes

This is an interesting situation there: From what I understand, the family who founded this scholarship is seeking to have it returned as it is not being used to fund a nontraditional student, as was intended. The school is not only not using the scholarship as intended, but is apparently depleting the funds by charging thousands annually in “administrative fees” .

5 Likes

It’s an unexpected fact that Paul LeBlanc, the president who led SNHU in becoming an online education behemoth, was also a former president of Marlboro, the tiny, bespoke, hippy, CTCL college.

And the job market that led to the salaries behind many of these rankings is also not any more what it once was.

5 Likes

Sorry - will edit and add. That’s a “confirmed” list of cheaters. I’m sure there’s more.

Look at those top 4 - many kids would give up a kidney to get into one of those :slight_smile:

And if so many are manipulating numbers, why is there such focus on these fallacious rankings?

1 Like

There are kids who would give up a kidney to go to Emory? I find that hard to believe.

I was being tongue in cheek - but like me, you’ve read - I have to go to HYP or Ivy or WUSTL or Emory or Vandy or whatever top 20 - it’s the dream. You’ve even commented on people saying that yourself.

As to why there’s focus on rankings, because they’re out there and for the same reason so many out there are top 20 or bust - and we get a lot of them on the website.

College is a business and they know this - so they want to be that desired destination.

Rarely do you hear someone who dreams of going to Guilford or W Florida, etc.

I think you underestimate Emory.

3 Likes

I don’t underestimate it at all. It’s a fine institution, regardless of what some ratings say. And it was a fine institution before there were ratings.

But “grownups” should be careful– there are HS kids reading these threads, and whenever we post that kids would give a kidney to go to Emory, we’re reinforcing the insanity of it all.

3 Likes

It was clearly tongue in cheek and yes, many put Emory in the same boat. And others - Northeastern, Wake Forest.

It was obviously tongue in cheek. The statement is not influencing anyone.

After all, it’s a bunch of middle age and older adults (the same ones it seems) that are utilizing this website mostly.

1 Like

It may not be hurting anyone, but all those straw man arguments are a fire hazard.

5 Likes

I’m not the one telling kids to come on here and wish for the elite or bust.

I am the one telling them that is silly although other posters do agree with these kids.

So all think differently - which is ok - varying perspectives.

2 Likes