It’s true that both are good. It’s not necessarily true that the choice does not matter. The two schools offer very different experiences. Many students might greatly prefer one over the other.
My daughter actually has direct experience of both of these two schools. She went undergrad to Dartmouth and is currently a grad student at Berkeley. She did not major in Business/Econ at either school, although as a TA she does currently teach General Statistics sections to Bus/Econ undergrads at Berkeley.
She agrees that the schools are very different, but she enjoys them both, and the quality of the education at both is quite high. We live in CA but the Dartmouth name was apparently well-known enough and carried some weight such that when she came out of college (with good but not super grades) and applied to grad school, she applied to seven grad schools and got accepted to all seven including all five California schools to which she applied. She picked Berkeley as it offered the best combination of academic quality and generous grad student support money.
She liked Dartmouth a lot although she did not join the Greek/party scene. She does not consider Dartmouth to be a “jock Ivy” school either. Her scene at Dartmouth was a combination of the symphony orchestra people and the camping/hiking outdoor crowd.
My own observations:
The housing situation is better at Dartmouth. Sometimes the housing at Berkeley seems almost desperate, although everyone always gets a place to live in the end. But you will probably end up paying more than you wanted for place that’s not as good as you wanted.
I prefer Berkeley’s semester system to Dartmouth’s quarters.
No snow in Berkeley. Lots of snow in Dartmouth. Lots of mud too in the rainy season.
Your access to events and fun in the Bay Area is limited only by your wallet and your time availability. By contrast downtown Hanover is about a block and half long. Boston is available by two-hour bus ride, but kids don’t actually go there all that often. However, Dartmouth does have all that outdoors stuff right there on its doorstep.
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My D cannot choose
She doesn’t care about the weather / small-big / athletics / semester-quarter / Greek. Financially, half of the tuition will be covered by my husbands employer and a substantial amount - by my employer (employment agreements). Thus, it is really difficult to choose.
@Scipio Thank you very much for your comment. Really helps!
@calliforniaaa - if your daughter has any specific questions about either school or specific comparisons she is interested in, I can put them to my daughter to get her opinion.
If she can’t choose, then she shouldn’t apply to Dart ED.
Studying Econ and Business are not the same. Your D needs to work through a couple of course catalogues (not just the two schools in question) to get a handle on which seems interesting to her. And given a high probability that she will change her major (many kids do) figuring out which school meets her academic needs (both current projections as well as future) might be really helpful.
option number three apply to Carnegie Mellon
Agree with Marian in #6. I have a student at Berkeley Haas Undergrad. If she has a strong inkling she wants to be an undergrad business major, look at Wharton, MIT and UCB (top 3). Amos Tuck the business school at Dartmouth doesn’t have an undergrad degree program. Not sure why counselor is pushing Dartmouth. It’s a good school, but isolated, with no business undergrad program. If she majors in Econ, then she’ll be in the running with Econ majors from “everywhere” to get into Tuck down the road after working 3 - 5 years. To me, UCB is the obvious choice.
CMU may be the most elite for engineering/CS and performing arts. However, it’s business/econ departments are not considered on par with Berkeley’s Haas or Darthmouth’s Econ departments even by CMU alums/current students I know.
Most CMU alums…including those who are parents of current CMU students would strongly advise/push their kids away from CMU if their interests were in Econ/Business and they were viable candidates for Berkeley Haas or Dartmouth.
Especially if Berkeley is in-state as it seems to be for OP.
I am joining this discussion late. Even if your daughter decides to attend UC Berkeley and because Haas accepts only juniors to the business school, she will need to apply in her sophomore year for admission to Haas in her junior year. The average UC Berkeley GPA for admitted students from UC Berkeley to Haas is 3.65 (37% acceptance rate) for the Fall 2016 class. I am sure she would have no problems getting in since she is a high achiever.
Also, if you are interested, look at the link below which shows other notable undergraduate business schools.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business-overall
Because of the thread, last night I asked my daughter (who has attended both schools) which she would recommend for undergrad, and without any hesitation she answered “Dartmouth!”
Jumping in late but I would vote UCB Haas. Top tier undergrad business ranking combined with your daughter’s desire to work in California down the road. The only drawback that I see is the fact that it is not direct admit . . . and that is a major issue to consider. Also a huge bargain being in state.
I am very, very grateful to everyone. Wonderful ideas!
@Scipio - many thanks!
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BEST POST !
@Scipio had a daughter who went to undergrad at Dartmouth. She didn’t attend undergrad at Cal.
Perhaps someone should find a student who,was an undergrad at Cal, and then went to Tuck…and see what their answer is.
Actually, its really easy to choose. If she is not feeling the love for Dartmouth, don’t apply ED. Save it for someone who really wants to be there and keep looking at other schools. There are other great ED schools that offer Econ. Heck, nearly every college offers econ.
And don’t forget, even with great numbers, there is no guarantee of admission to Cal. A top kid in my D’s class was admitted to Stanford, but rejected by UCLA. And then there was the kid admitted to Cal but rejected by the Bruins. Sure, the odds maybe 90% for Cal, but that means 10% for no-Cal. You just never know what an app reader sees, or does not see/like.
My point is that you had better start a Plan B, and broaden the choice between a lotto school and an almost lotto school (for the unhooked). ![]()
full disclosure: son was accepted ED and if I knew then, what I know now, I would have counseled against his ED app.
My full disclosure is that my daughter applied to college ED and was accepted. It turned out just fine. But she was 100% sure that she was willing to attend her ED school. She knew that if she was accepted ED, she would have no regrets. And that’s exactly what happened.
ED was a good idea for my daughter. It doesn’t sound like it’s a good idea for yours.
“@Scipio had a daughter who went to undergrad at Dartmouth. She didn’t attend undergrad at Cal”
True, but I think a grad student on the same campus, living in the same town, interacting on a daily basis with many undergrads, competing for the same mostly-off campus housing, eating the same food, attending the same campus special events, cheering for the same football team, observing how well/poorly the university administration serves the student community, dealing with many of the same headaches, and interacting with many of the same professors can get a much better idea of what the undergrad life is like on a given campus over someone who never went to school there at all.
IMO my daughter’s experience offers perhaps the best head-to-head direct experience comparison of those two specific schools that you are ever likely find. The only better comparison would from someone who was an undergrad at both schools, and I bet those are pretty rare. We know a lot of Dartmouth people and and lot of Berkeley people, but only ones we know who attended both are 2 or 3 others who are undergrad/grad combos like my daughter.