<p>I think one of the smartest choices I made in high school was getting a “C” in Geography the first semester of 9th grade. It eliminated all the “valedictorian” pressure for the next 3-1/2 years! My graduating class did have five valedictorians, though, who all had 4.0 GPAs. I think weighting must be a modern invention.</p>
<p>As for today, as long as adults care so much, I’d just bag the whole valedictorian thing. Too much sturm und drang, and not enough importance. The valedictory speaker should be chosen from the acting program or the speech team. You know, someone who knows how to give a speech? This might considerably ease the pain of commencement.</p>
<p>I thought the way my graduate business school did it was more civilized. The top 10% of the class were designated “Dean’s Scholars,” and the professors chose the top student of the graduating class for a special award. Commencement was planned by a group of volunteer students who asked classmates to speak based on, I don’t know, some criteria or other. As it turned out all of the speakers gave short, interesting speeches. It was actually the only entertaining commencement ceremony I’ve attended.</p>
<p>curmudgeon wrote, “You see, we believe you can want to be the best at what you do AND be an intellectual. We don’t feel they are mutually exclusive, or declasse or bourgeouis.”</p>
<p>Here, here! </p>
<p>A well-designed and clearly communicated set of rules upon which the valedictorian is chosen is the key. And, generally speaking, even with all it’s limitations, the use of the “weighted GPA” is the most “fair” method. Students do not respect a valedictorian who took a “weaker” courseload.</p>
<p>curmudgeon: If student A has 3.999 GPA without award, student B has 3.998 GPA with national award in Physics Olympiad and writing, which one would you choose to receive 32K scholarship for val?</p>
<p>* contrast to my observations in our high school community where being val was not this major thing I see often discussed on CC or even in the news.*</p>
<p>My older Ds school didn’t have Vals or Sals- unranked actually.
I think everyone was fine with that. Doesn’t inhibit the choice of paths after graduation although I admit some scholarships did ask for class rank.</p>
<p>Younger Ds school has everyone with a straight A average since freshman year as Val. I think this is a great idea too. Classes are unweighted, so although the school offers the most AP of any school in district ( and possibly state), students who have worked hard to get As in Home Ec and honors history are on stage along side those who have gotten As in AP Calc BC and AP Physics.</p>
Well, that’s an easy one. According to the formula, out of school accomplishments don’t mean squat. Student A by a whisker. Val is for highest GPA in high school classwork, or more precisely what has been pre-qualified as high school classwork. The award was for something else entirely.</p>
<p>D1 and D2’s schools didn’t rank (not sure about D3’s sch - - like WashDad, she’s already opted out). Val/sal status is not much of an issue b/c there’s nothing at stake. I don’t think colleges are more impressed by the val/sal title than by overall performance. Also, I believe that unlike VT and MA, NYS does not offer special val/sal scholarships - - and even if such were available, most top students are looking at pvt LAC rather than the SUNYs.</p>
<p>As far as selection, I don’t think there’s any formula that will please everone happy. No matter what the standard, it’s going to cut in favor of some (maybe those taking the easiest classes) and against others (3.998 gpa w/ outside physics award).</p>
<p>Coolweather, I agree with Curm on that example. Valedictorian is not an award for smartest or best or most accomplished person or anything else. It is just for highest GPA in the class. </p>
<p>Reflectivemom, I do agree with you that weighted GPA seems fairer. When my kids attended, we did not have a weighted GPA system. My daughter felt that the school was not encouraging students to challenge themselves, and certainly not rewarding them for it. She chose to challenge herself because she doesn’t like easy work. But there are some students who get all As or mostly all As and have chosen to take the easiest courseload as it lands them with better grades for college and better rank. Here, a kid could have been val who took no Honors or AP classes. In my D’s year, that was not the case for her as val but was the case with the sal and third and fourth ranked students.</p>
<p>My D researched weighted grading systems and ranking systems in our state and in the country. She looked into many policies and talked with people from all over involved in the schools. She wrote a policy for a weighted GPA system to be used for rank but not for Honor Roll (so all who had achieved could be recognized) and she wrote a rationale that addressed the school encouraging students to challenge themselves in academics. She went through faculty hearings, meetings with administrators and eventually presentations to the School Board and community about the policy she developed. This was a two year process. She had nothing to gain by it because if they approved the policy, it would not kick in during her time there. But she left this as a legacy for other students who choose to challenge themselves, and to encourage others to also do so, and so that the recognition and rewarding goes in hand in hand, rather than discouraging students to take the more rigorous courses. The School Board adopted her policy and now the school is using weighted GPA for rank. Teachers who wrote recs were commenting that they had not seen a student effect change in the school before. I think if you do feel strongly about something, you can take initiative and go up against many obstacles (it was NOT a smooth process) and possibly effect change, even if merely a student.</p>
<p>Looks like we’re all in agreement on coolweather’s example. Valedictorian is the student with the highest academic class rank - no more, no less. It isn’t meant to reflect outside awards, standardized test scores, popularity, etc., although many students have “it all”.</p>
<p>I agree…from my observations at our school…a lot of the kids in the top ten of the class are kids who are accomplished beyond their GPA. They are strong in lots of ways…many are our schools’ best musicians and athletes too, as but an example. However, only GPA goes into figuring rank.</p>
If the rules were fair & logical, I’d see more of a point to a val race. So often they are not. I think competition in academics is fine. But unless the kids all take the exact same courses, taught by the exact same teachers, there is bound to be wide swings in the difficulty of courseloads. I also hate that a val race discourages kids from challenging themselves or exploring the arts. I like a cum laude/magna/summa designation, personally. I was the sal of my college, & while that was kind of cool, it hasn’t impacted my life in any way. I’m not opposed to focusing on grades. In fact, I remind D all the time that she has to keep up the pace because even though her goals are vague right now, she doesn’t want to close any doors by letting her grades slide.</p>
<p>Luckily the arts are not discouraged at our HS. It has only been on CC that I have read of schools where students taking the arts classes “lose” out when it comes to class rank. I think all courses count here for GPA and rank, including electives. But I have NEVER heard of anyone skipping the arts classes to help with ranking at all. In fact, SO many of our top students are the students who take part in the music program, which happens to be considered a well regarded music program. I know that my D who was val was in band, jazz band, jazz theory, and art classes at school during the school day. I believe both of the kids up for val this year are musicians, one significantly accomplished in fact in jazz piano. The arts are valued here and truthfully a good many of our best students are ALSO the ones involved in the arts in our high school. In my other D’s year, the val was a top art student and the sal was a top theater student (each going on to college for those fields). Unrelated to that, in my older D’s year, I recall almost every kid in the top ten, as well as in the NHS, as being on at least one varsity sport team. My D was val and on three. So, here there was no discouragement to be involved in the arts programs (let alone sports).</p>
<p>Why are all hung up on “there can be only one!” WHY? </p>
<p>Our public HS had 7 vals my S’s year and 6 my D’s. You know who was upset? The Deca kids because they thought they wouldn’t get time to speak at commencement. Instead the solution was to have each Val spend about 3 minutes per speech linked together. It worked great for the most part (except for homeschooled kid who wanted to talk about herself), actually better than an inbetween year where the one Val was expected to talk for 15 minutes by herself. </p>
<p>The benefits of multiple Vals? Let’s see… co-operative attitudes between the vals on projects… someone else to hang out with when most of the student body resents your intelligence… No parents stressing about being #1 over all other parents, thus no need to leave a scorched earth… friendship with like minded people, who after HS dispurse all over the country to pursue their educations…</p>
<p>Someone please tell me how choosing only one val amongst 4.0ers is a good idea? Especially if your kid isn’t the number 1? Would you consider your kid a failure for a 4.0 if he was third based on some add hoc formula? </p>
<p>By the way both my kids would have ranked #1 in their classes using some of the methods here. While that feels good to know, it feels better to see my kids keeping in touch with the other vals and finding out several are going on to med school or are about to go into solid professions. It feels good to see their parents in the store and ask how’s … doing? and actually care and not feel anger at their kids success. </p>
<p>I really enjoyed BBQing for the vals and their families at year end. It is nice to toast another families success rather than resent it. </p>
<p>Did it bother me that one of the vals got his 4.0 without taking an AP class? not in the least. That would be his business and choice. How it plays out for him in college will be his concern, not mine. Another was a homeschool 4.0er? Go figure, I didn’t care because the situation was such that all who got there were rewarded, so we could focus on ours, not theirs. It’s a much better use of emotional energy.</p>
<p>Opie…here, only one student had a 4.0 and that is why there was only one valedictorian. </p>
<p>As well, at graduation, they recognized a “valedictory group”…it was the top ten students, I believe…not all equal GPAs but simply the top of the class. The val and sal give the speeches here.</p>
<p>“Opie…here, only one student had a 4.0 and that is why there was only one valedictorian.”</p>
<p>That’s OK. My point has been with some here demanding that one 4.0 is better than another 4.0 for xyz reasons. At a certain point is that really necessary?</p>
<p>Here, many, many students have 4.0. The separation occurs on the number of weighted classes. And, sadly, many feel the need to drop the “music and arts” classes for weighted classes. Others use their lunch period to take the “unweighted” classes without credit.</p>
<p>I’ve long recommended a program where students take 5 weighted classes, one unweighted class and one lunch. If a kid still wanted to use their time to take 7 AP’s, that would be fine. But, they would still get the extra quality points for only 5 classes and receive credit for only 6. I think this might encourage kids to explore the “arts” a bit more and decrease the stress some feel in “going for the gold”.</p>
<p>In my town, kids WERE skipping arts courses to cram in more AP & honor courses to boost their rank. It’s not a prestigious school district, so kids who are ambitious feel the pressure to stand out in some way. Luckily, next fall the concert choir will have an honors designation. Don’t know about band or jazz ensembles. Another problem was a new attempt to beef up math offerings by accelerating kids in the middle school. The top scoring kids were placed in accelerated classes, but the teachers were poor and their math background wasn’t adequate. Many of those kids took a GPA hit. Kids are also skipping lunch to fit in APs, taking, zero period classes, and feeling frustrated that not enough advanced material is actually covered in the APs because admission to the class has a low threshold.</p>
<p>Opie, I’m not hung up on one student being honored. (But I’m not a Texan.) In D’s school, I’m sure it would be tough to find a measurable difference between #1 and #10, nevermind #1 and #2. We have come to assume that the person delivering the valedictory is the #1 ranked kid. So just call it the Honors Circle, or something else, and people might not snicker when six, or twelve, or 23 kids are recognized.</p>
<p>I graduated from a small school where there was no question who had the best GPA, but I attended a different school in 9th grade where a classmate I barely knew asked about my grade on an exam once and was angry that it was slightly higher than hers (if I’d been really smart, I wouldn’t have let her see it). I can see how having a lot of smart kids competing for the top spot could have a lot of negative consequences. I like the idea of having more than one valedictorian (although I also like the idea of none). Does anyone really, REALLY believe there is any difference between a 3.999 and a 3.998? I think GPA should be calculated to only 1 decimal place. I think only the top 4-5 grades per term should be counted to allow students to pursue other interests without so much anxiety. I think weighting classes is silly. People have discussed grading systems on CC where an A in a regular class is a 4 and in an AP class it’s a 6. Is there really that much of a difference? Always? Anyway, I’ll see how I feel about all this when my kids are old enough to be affected by it, but it isn’t something I think will matter much to us.</p>
<p>yes, but it is actually better when shared. The segments are shorter, brighter and less subject to the “I” syndrome. We graduate 650-750 kids a shot, ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING to speed it up is appreicated. My S’s year they used a paid speaker from the UW to go on for 20 minutes on green eggs and ham or something equally memmorable. BY the time my D’s rolled around, no guest speaker and running the entire commencement for 650 under 2 hours… ( now that should be rewarded )</p>
<p>I guess my point is at a certain point it is counter productive to split hairs. Why not have 10 sets of families happy or do we always have to have one?</p>
<p>Check that nobody cares except the families whose kids also were 4.0ers but bumped because they took one less AP class. Those folks remember forever. </p>
<p>The Vals for our HS were roughly the top 1%. That means they were better than 99% of the other students, that should be enough of a requirement. </p>
<p>Should a kid have to give up the arts they are exceptional at to concentrate on an extra AP? </p>
<p>In reality, after a week or so, nobody cares much if your kid was a Val. You’ve already enrolled in your college and outside of them using the head count on the incoming class reports on the website…absolutely nobody cares.</p>
According to the formula, out of school accomplishments don’t mean squat. Student A by a whisker. Val is for highest GPA in high school classwork, or more precisely what has been pre-qualified as high school classwork. The award was for something else entirely.</p>
Instead the solution was to have each Val spend about 3 minutes per speech linked together. It worked great for the most part (except for homeschooled kid who wanted to talk about herself), actually better than an inbetween year where the one Val was expected to talk for 15 minutes by herself. </p>