<p>Opie, LOL. Sorry. </p>
<p>As to the soccer, I wager his little sister can make you both look silly. ;)</p>
<p>"As to the soccer, I wager his little sister can make you both look silly. "</p>
<p>Probably, I’m an old fat man now… but back when I was a young fat man…</p>
<p>As I’ve become older, it’s more and more amazing how good I was. It is like each year I got better in hindsight. :)</p>
<p>I just had to tease the xiggiman, I’m culturally required to do so. Only the irish can be full of blarney, he’s on my turf.</p>
<p>I agree with Opie…the most important thing is that the rules don’t change once you start high school. The next most important thing is that you don’t screw the smartest guy with the highest GPA in the hardest classes. That’s why I wouldn’t want it to get too subjective (i.e., essays, etc.) </p>
<p>Valedictorian is supposed to mean the highest GPA. Different schools do it differently. I went to two high schools. One was a very large public one (600 per class) that designated as valedictorian anyone who got an unweighted 4.0 GPA. They ended up with like 20 valedictorians. It’s not so bad considering how many people there were in the class. The smartest people ended up with straight A’s even though they took the hardest curriculum.</p>
<p>My other high school was a magnet school and they didn’t have honors like that because they didn’t want to encourage competition. </p>
<p>Making valedictorian a 4.0 unweighted GPA is a safe way to do it–that way you can’t game the system by getting out of PE (a class that doesn’t weight) or something like that. (There was an ugly case where someone who had a physical disability ended up as valedictorian because she got out of PE–she ended up suing for discrimination when they tried to get her to share the valedictorian title with a classmate.) </p>
<p>A better way to do it would be to take the highest unweighted GPA and then tiebreak with the unweighted GPA. However, you would have to make sure that people who may have taken an extra unweighted class (like art) are not penalized as long as they took the same number of weighted classes. For example, if person A and B both take 4 AP’s and have straight A’s, don’t penalize person B because they fit in an extra unweighted art class.</p>
<p>Or alternatively, give valedictorian status to everyone with 4.0 unweighted status and allow the highest weighted average to give the graduation speech.</p>
<p>You can also just not figure PE grades into the GPA. Our school only counts “academic” courses. I’m actually not sure if art and music count as academic or not since my kids are not interested in gaming the system. I do understand that in some schools kids will take extra honors and AP courses since as long as they get As that will up their GPAs. I can understand wanting to recognize a kid who takes more courses, but I think you run a real danger of unhealthy course loads. (No lunch, no free time.)</p>
<p>Our dictionary says it’s whoever delivers the parting address, usually the top student. I had never heard of multiple vals and sals before coming to CC. A recent one at our hs didn’t go to parties even on weekends because she “needed” to study. Another one I know of was such an internally driven student her parents tried to bribe her to ease off and get a B in something–didn’t work.</p>
<p><a href=“There%20was%20an%20ugly%20case%20where%20someone%20who%20had%20a%20physical%20disability%20ended%20up%20as%20valedictorian%20because%20she%20got%20out%20of%20PE–she%20ended%20up%20suing%20for%20discrimination%20when%20they%20tried%20to%20get%20her%20to%20share%20the%20valedictorian%20title%20with%20a%20classmate.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Link to Harvard Crimson for details on this “ugly” case. <a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348498[/url]”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348498</a></p>
<p>The Blair Hornstine mess was quite a crazy case, wasn’t it? I also remember another val fight over a girl who had never even taken a course at her h.s., and instead took all community college courses, being named val.</p>
<p>With re to post #64–the smaller school my younger two attend only counts core into your GPA, not PE or co-curricular activity grades such as debate, journalism, etc…</p>
<p>The larger school that my older two graduated from not only counts all classes, but weights the AP classes so heavily (even though most kids do not take the AP exams that go with them) that in order to stay towards the top kids end up dropping out of band, athletics, journalism, debate and so forth to keep their rank. </p>
<p>Not only that, but the val this year took a Credit By Exam or CBE test for PE so the unweighted class wouldn’t count in his GPA. What is that? A test for PE? What is the point of Physical education if you just take a test? I think they just should have taken the core classes and calculated it that way.</p>
<p>Believe me, there’s alot to be said for sharing the val speech at commencement. They’re shorter, sweeter and done faster. </p>
<p>The only people that should be allowed to speak beyond a few minutes are stand up comedians. 
</p>
<p>With shorter speeches (tied together by theme) you don’t have time to get bored with the speakers. After all, isn’t everyone there to see “their” kid graduate? Having sat through two 600 plus commencements ANYBODY speaking more than a couple minutes is a jerk that should be beaten with rocks!! (how’s that for outrage guys?)</p>
<p>One of the years inbetween my kids had only 1 val, from what I heard, she went on for 15 minutes about herself and pretty much only herself. It was so bad that the district considered doing away with the val speech. Sorry I missed that one. With several you tell them you have 2 minutes 30 seconds. Short and sweet. </p>
<p>I think it’s great parent’s are proud of their val kids, but understand, nobody wants to listen to your kid talk for 15 minutes about themselves. No matter how you feel about it. :)</p>
<p>Our school has the tradition val, but she/he doesn’t give the speech. Instead, students audition their speeches in front of some teachers, administrators, that sort of thing I suppose. Two are chosen to give a speech, it’s a great honor. And imho a good idea because seriously, vals are smart but not always the most creative writers.</p>
<p>Opie, I have to say that NONE of our vals have ever talked that long, and I doubt they ever would. </p>
<p>I was the val this year (we graduated last Tuesday) along with two guys. Last year there were 5. But everyone, including the vals, knew last year the one who really earned it. She was an amazing girl who took some inordinate amount of AP’s, had a job, and was overall extremely involved in the community. Same thing this year, even though my weighted GPA was much higher (not talking a .001 of a point) we all shared it. I wouldn’t mind it so much sharing with one guy because I’ve only taken a couple more AP’s than him and I know he has challenged himself, but the other SPECIFICALLY did not take our extremely difficult AP Eng classes because the teacher grades extremely hard. But, both I and the other guy both took the classes (junior and senior year) AND got A’s. We worked hard for that. It really irritates me that students avoid rigorous classes (and they do) because it will lower their GPA. I would say that happens way more than in weighted systems where they all go into AP’s to get higher weight. </p>
<p>Anyway, that was a tangent. My real point is that the val deserves to speak at graduation, about whatever they want, for a reasonable period of time. I feel for you having to sit through a speech that long! I don’t know if I could have done that, because for one it is insanely boring and two because you risk losing your audience. My speech was about 5 minutes or so, it was supposed to be 2 (oops). But originally our principal wanted us to do themed speechs, oh my I almost died. I had already started writing mine and he told me to “put a pause on that” until he decided our theme. Luckily, that idea was axed. Although, I have to admit that some of the speeches were redundant mostly because the other speakers didn’t know what to say and truthfully didn’t put much thought into it (coming from their own mouths). But hey, that was their few minutes of “fame”, if they want to waste it then that’s fine. </p>
<p>It was nice that our principal brought attention to several of my accomplishments, when he could have just said nothing (highest GPA in school history). Later, each speaker was introduced and they read a list of clubs, awards, athletics, scholarships, etc. and you could tell the ones who were active, and those who weren’t. </p>
<p>I hate it when people assume the vals/sals have been glued to a book to get to this point. Or when people assume since I have gotten straight A’s in 13 AP classes that I don’t have a life. I’m very involved in my church and school clubs, and spend a lot of time with my family and my b/f. I think that normally the vals (at least at my school) are not secluded from everything but in fact are the most involved, dynamic people on campus. </p>
<p>I’ve written a lot more in the student sections about this. Sorry if it was long!</p>
<p>Ya know, I’ll hold back a bit here lifeunfolding. I am very sure you are a brilliant young person with alot of potential. However, you just posted what was wrong with everybody else without any reflection on yourself in the situation. There’s absolutely no reason to validate yourself at the expense of those other kids. It’s not that I don’t understand your situation, both my kids were vals and the #1’s. You differ though in one aspect. We taught our kids to worry about themselves, not others. When everybody is great why the need to split hairs? Why spend the time?</p>
<p>I believe that everyone is great at something, I really do. But do I think that valedictorian should be used to award everyone who is “good” or “great” at academics, no. I truly believe it is supposed to be the highest achiever, as established by GPA, in high school. If someone else did better than me in higher level classes, I would feel awkward sitting up there next to them knowing I didn’t challenge myself as much as he or she did. I know specifically a couple of the vals last year who felt that way when they knew that a certain girl deserved it the most. I think this just gets into the “lets make everyone feel good” syndrome. </p>
<p>And don’t get me wrong, while being valedictorian was a goal, it was not THE goal. I wanted to challenge myself as much as I could and do the best possible, and if that was a B, then I’d live. Things ended up not working out that way, but either way I can sleep at night knowing I did my best and challenged myself. </p>
<p>Opie, I’m sorry if it came across that I was trying to validate myself, that was not at all my intention. I was just trying to point out the problem with the unweighted system that you suggest, in what has been my experience. </p>
<p>If I had not been directly told by the student that he was avoiding the class because he wouldn’t get an A, then it would be a different situation. This is not a student who is trying their best and can only manage regular classes and gets straight A’s, this is a fully capable, intelligent student selling himself short because of the fear of a B. That is what irritates me. I want to see peopel do their best and challenge themselves, not resign to mediocre classes (which at my school our honors are). </p>
<p>In the end, this doesn’t really matter here because next year (or the year after, I can’t remember) they are switching to weighted. </p>
<p>Opie, if you would like reflections on myself, just tell me what you want and I will give you the honest answer(s), feel free to PM if you would rather do that. But honestly, I don’t know what it is you want me to include.</p>
<p>"I truly believe it is supposed to be the highest achiever, as established by GPA, in high school. If someone else did better than me in higher level classes, I would feel awkward sitting up there next to them knowing I didn’t challenge myself as much as he or she did. I know specifically a couple of the vals last year who felt that way when they knew that a certain girl deserved it the most. I think this just gets into the “lets make everyone feel good” syndrome. "</p>
<p>My point is once the school sets the method of evaluation, stop worrying it beyond that. Your overworried at that point. It’s not a matter of let make everyone feel good, not in the least. Kid’s still have to hit requirements. </p>
<p>“In the end, this doesn’t really matter”</p>
<p>It’s a momment in time, enjoy it for it is quickly forgotten. My point to you has been why worry about somebody else, enjoy what you’ve accomplished.</p>
<p>LifeUnfolding: Don’t let OpieofMaybery2 bother you at all. You may question anything and everything you wish! “The school sets the method of evaluation, stop worrying it beyond that.” - says Opieof Maybery2.</p>
<p>I don’t even know what this “validating yourself” psychobabble means. :)</p>
<p>Questioning is healthy. Question all you want. There are requirements, and then there are requirements. I personally think you raise many good points. :)</p>
<p>HH,</p>
<p>"I don’t even know "</p>
<p>you just described yourself perfectly… </p>
<p>Good cheap shot though, you might have left a mark.</p>
<p>Yes, Opieof Maybery2, a different viewpoint from the one you offered. Out here in the real world some of us have opinions that differ from yours on various subjects.</p>
<p>“real world” ??? </p>
<p>K.</p>
<p>You know there’s an old saying about some people buried to the waist in gold… </p>
<p>Then again maybe you don’t.</p>
<p>re: the kids know</p>
<p>With regard to kids knowing the best this or that. .My d said kids vote on all those best things and treat it like it is a joke at her school. THe most intelligent person in her class, with the hardest course load isn’t val and for only one reason she took french instead of spanish or latin. She’s my d’s closest friend.The french department grades much harder so the valedictorian is not a french student. In fact only 3 of 10 students who got cum laude as juniors took french. 3 more french students got it senior year, including my daughter .However when it came to college admissions of the 9 kids accepted to ivys 4 were french students, 4 were spanish students and one was a latin student.(Her class had 92 kids and 19 total cum laude ). The french students made it up in their gpa with other classes and were either urm(1), legacy(2) or had a talent in the arts that was distinctive(1). The 4 spanish students were val,sal, and very strong on paper.
I</p>
<p>Basically what comes out of the discussion is GPA, unweighted or weighted, is dependent on the classes taken, so there really cannot be a “comparison” between students unless all students take the same courses.</p>
<p>I liken this to high school baseball, something I know a lot more about than chemistry and french. Our pitchers did not pitch against the same teams. Our number one pitcher consistently pitched against the best hitting teams. Our number four and five pitchers would pitch when it was a game we knew we could win handily and we were ‘saving’ our number one pitcher. So at the end of the season, the ERAs were all over the place. “Who had the Best ERA” was a meaningless comparison.</p>
<p>I imagine the same may go for tennis teams, when the number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 singles players always play against the same from other schools.</p>
<p>GPA is what it is.</p>