@Ohiodad51 , I have been trying for 15 minutes now to decide how to respond to you post, which while thoughtful and not without merit, IMHO misses the point, which has been explained many times in this thread already.
So I am just reminded of Louis Armstrong’s famous quote when he was asked “What is Jazz?”
He said, “If you gotta ask, you’ll never know”.
@postmodern, I get that some people are upset with DeVos because of her position on school choice, etc. But I don’t understand the specific complaint about the specific quote from the original post on the thread. I think there can be a very productive debate about the role of public-private vouchers, magnet schools, etc that is completely independent of the apparently offending quote. I also believe we should have a conversation about whether every student needs to be college tracked, or whether the decision to pull things like shop classes from higih school curricula was a mistake.
And yes, many of you have used this thread as a launching point to discuss some of those issues. But I am not sure how that explains the point or answers my question. I also find the overarching theme less persuasive when it begins from a muddled premise. That’s why I asked if someone could kind of anchor the four pages of criticism to the topic of the thread.
Speaking of jazz, I actually prefer this quote: “I don’t always play the wrong notes, but when I do, I call it jazz.”
Well, DeVos may have had a smidgen of a valid point when she started out, but of course as she rolled further down the obligatory argument for school choice she became a train wreck. No Betsy, the founding of HBCUs was certainly not a choice made out of opportunity. Yes, Christian organizations did establish some private Black colleges, but public colleges were expressly created to perpetuate Jim Crow. Southern states and places like Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland were not about to admit non-whites to public colleges, thus they created Black-only colleges in their respective states. And just to make sure you understand the history Ms. DeVos, at times southern legislatures created Jim Crow colleges in the SAME TOWN where existing public universities were located. Florida A&M is located down the road from Florida State University. North Carolina A&T and U of NC-Greensboro are blocks apart. U of Alabama-Huntsville and Alabama A&M are in the same town. Hmmm. Sure sounds like Mr. Jim Crow’s hand and rock-solid discrimination was at work; not “school choice.”
By the way, at times southern legislatures ELIMINATED black public colleges to expressly deny opportunities to Blacks. Florida law-makers shut down Florida A&M’s law school in the 1970s because racists in the legislature were annoyed that A&M Law graduates were challenging Jim Crow in court and actually winning a case every now and then.
But lets think about this errata more. It’s probably not DeVos’ fault. Her aides, advanceperson, deputy etc. should have known better and checked his facts before giving Secretary DeVos her background briefing for the interview.
This is the part of the press release that I was responding to:
“They started from the fact that there were too many students in America who did not have equal access to education. They saw that the system wasn’t working, that there was an absence of opportunity, so they took it upon themselves to provide the solution.”
It is not in the present tense. It is explicitly about the founding of HBCUs.
@hanna, yes, I read your post criticizing the language “the system wasn’t working”. I guess I just disagree with that. I think the system (meaning our constitutional form of government) was actually not working at the time that people were denied access to colleges based on skin color (or sex for that matter). Certainly such wouold be a reasonable and rational interpretation of the statement, no? And even if the criticism is that she said “the system wasn’t working” when the intent of the policies in place at the time was to discriminate - which I believe is your point - that seems a pretty small point overall, don’t you agree? I assume you have no actual issue with the remainder of the factual statements in the quote, right?
But @lakewashington, that is not at all what she said. Words have meaning, and should be interpreted in a normal and rational way. So I struggle with the idea of building an argument based on what is manifestly an incorrect assertion. And how starting from that false assertion advances the argument contra her position on school choice is beyond me.
@juillet – thanks for your comment. I think it’s interesting that generally on CC people don’t question the value of all-women schools – yet might question the value of HBCU’s… even though both offer the same benefits. Namely, extraordinary level of support, mentorship and opportunities to traditionally disadvantaged populations. Hypocritical, much?
"yes, I read your post criticizing the language “the system wasn’t working”
And as for describing violently enforced apartheid as “absence of opportunity”?
So the argument is what, she wasn’t muscular enough in her language? She should have turned her speech into a statement condemning Bull Conner? I just don’t get it. She obviously didn’t intend to and wasn’t addressing segregation per se. She was directly and obviously lauding HBCUs. What she said was factually accurate and relevant to the topic at hand. Maybe I am nuts but I just don’t see how this level of projection is either persuasive or helpful.
It is pretty obvious that DeVos was not talking about public schools like FAMU which was created by the state to promote a flawed “separate but equal” reading of the law. Instead, she is talking about private schools like Bethune-Cookman which were created and nurtured by people who were not happy with the state alternatives provided at the time. It is these types of private schools that she is trying to promote on a high school level.
But of course, there is a crowd that believes everything DeVos says is evil and must shut down at every opportunity.
Maybe that’s because she hasn’t said anything to make us think she knows what she’s talking about? Because she’s made it clear she’s hostile to the basic values in public education? Because she’s the education sector’s equivalent of Scott Pruitt, head of the the EPA, which he’s vowed to abolish?
Then, you completely missed marvin100’s point. He was equating academic tracking to a dual class system. He wasn’t talking about race or even directly class.
‘HBCUs are real pioneers when it comes to school choice. They are living proof that when more options are provided to students, they are afforded greater access and greater quality. Their success has shown that more options help students flourish.’
@Ohiodad51 The actual statement is not wrong. It is in the framing of it in the modern context of school choice that does not sit well with me given we know De Vos’ history of being a champion of this issue. (I have no dog in that particular fight either way btw.) As we know it wasn’t a choice, or rather it was…a Hobson’s Choice. ‘Their success has shown that more options help students flourish.’ Was it really that more options help students flourish or that students having AN option shows they can flourish? Words matter. How they are put together matter. Context matters. History matters. At least to me they should/do. My hope is moving forward, she and her staff will be more thoughtful in putting her statements together.
Really well said, @crimsonmom2019
@crimsonmom2019, I appreciate the thoughtful comments. And I think I get your points. But I just try and shy away from assuming someone doesn’t know what they are talking about or is somehow nefarious because I might disagree with their policy ideas.
That’s a good policy to hold, but in this case, DeVos has repeatedly demonstrated that she has no real expertise in education, a lack of qualification also evident in her resume. Here are some articles detailing her ignorance on some very basic pedagogical concepts:
https://news.vice.com/story/betsy-devos-is-confused-by-basic-questions-about-education-policy
https://mic.com/articles/165783/betsy-de-vos-has-no-idea-what-the-difference-between-proficiency-and-growth-is#.Un2txah8Z
http://www.vox.com/2017/1/17/14304692/devos-confirmation-hearing-education
Even De Vos’ first official stop at a public school ended badly - after a short visit, she came to some rather shocking conclusions:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Education-Secretary-DeVos-criticized-teachers-at-10942721.php
Oh that’s hilarious, @katliamom
@marvin100, I get the issue with DeVos’ lack of experience in education. I am married to a teacher after all. But that is a completely different thing than the criticism leveled about these comments.
And @katliamom, at least they finally let her in the school. Baby steps.
Sure @Ohiodad51 (and power to your spouse!). I was just responding to the idea that people are “assuming” she’s ignorant, since it’s long past assumption and into substantiation at this point 
@Ohiodad51 – it might have been better for her reputation if they hadn’t!