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It seems to me that the problem is that when schools do enforce, the consequences can be too severe,especially for bystanders (i.e., losing driver’s license). Perhaps if there were more moderate and temporary (albeit unpleasant) consequences there could be a better balance.</p>
<p>“Son pulls me aside and pleads with me not to “mess things up and embarrass his date”. I comply after getting agreement that he will control himself and call me in the morning and they all go off in their limo”</p>
<p>I empathize with you and the position you were in, but one way of handling it would have been to tell your son that he couldn’t go to the party, and if he did go to the party, you’d turn those parents in. Hard as it is to be the lone holdout in this kind of situation, we can’t expect our kids to stand up to peer pressure if we’re not willing to do that ourselves.</p>
<p>Have your kids watch those police reality shows where everyone getting arrested is drunk or on drugs and are doing stupid things. In high school, back in the 1970’s, we had to watch the gory films during driver ed about real accidents involving drinking.</p>
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<p>Ewwww. How do you know it was safe for your teammates?</p>
<p>NSM…not the call I made and I’m fine with it. I’ve made plenty of other calls that were not popular.
I think there’s a fine line to walk here. We are quite strict but I know of parents who are by the book all the way. I think it’s important to look at the full picture and at SOME point, begin to trust that your child (almost adult) will learn how to deal with crazy folks and circumstances without parental interference. I felt I was at that point with my son (thankfully since he was only a few months away from starting college). Another parent might have felt differently.</p>
<p>Hunt, exactly, make the punishment more realistic, and it will get enforced uniformly, and require counseling. I don’t think anyone has a problem with their kids being put on clean up detail, community service, watching horror films (of when things go wrong) etc. Now what happens is that many times there is no punishment (or required counseling) – so its all seems random to the kids.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe my mother’s intentions were to provide me an experience where alcohol is consumed in a safe and responsible manner. (For those who asked, yes I was the only underage individual as it was an “adult” team) I imagine that children all around the world (outside of America and the Arab world) have similar introductions to alcohol and don’t develop weird attitudes about it. I suggest that we consider rates of binge drinking, alcohol poisoning, cirrhosis etc in the US as compared to other countries with more relaxed views about alcohol. I haven’t done the leg work, but I would be shocked if countries where the inhabitants have mature, adult views about alcohol, would have more societal afflictions stemming from it.</p>
<p>Teaching your child to drink isn’t really what I call it if wine and other alcohol are part of your culture, homelife, meals, celebrations. There is a huge difference between enjoying a glass of wine with meals, relaxing with a cocktail, and drinking to throw away the inhibitions and getting drunk. They have little in common, as far as I am concerned.</p>
<p>“I haven’t done the leg work, but I would be shocked if countries where the inhabitants have mature, adult views about alcohol, would have more societal afflictions stemming from it.”</p>
<p>Somebody posted something recently. Maybe even on this thread.</p>
<p>Found it. Post #55</p>
<p>There are two or three threads each year involving incidents like this. I usually just read them and move on. This time was different. This time, it slowly dawned on me that I used to know this family. They lived in NYC before they moved to suburbia shortly after Matthew was born. I haven’t seen the family since then. I’m not trying to imply we were close friends, but I knew his mom and saw enough of her with her kids to know that she was a warm, loving mother. I can’t imagine her pain. </p>
<p>I’ve read about the Red Watch Band program she’s started. Why don’t those on this board who have children in college push to have their colleges start such a program? Would each and every parent on the board who takes a college tour or goes to an information session agree to ask if the college has a Red Watch Band program and whether it offers amnesty to students?</p>
<p>College students NEED to know what to do if someone becomes intoxicated and loses consciousness. Certainly every RA or the equivalent at each college NEEDS to know what to do. (The articles about Matthew’s death are unclear, but it sounds as if at least one student did tell the RA that the kid was unconscious. )</p>
<p>Colleges NEED to view this as a medical emergency and grant amnesty to the student who is put into that ambulance and the students who call for it. No kid should ever be in the position of thinking “Well, Dan or Danielle will probably be all right…and if I call the ambulance and he/she gets in trouble, he/she is going to be really angry at me” or “I’ve had a few beers myself–what if the cops come when I call 911 and arrest me for underage drinking?” </p>
<p>To be truthful, I didn’t realize that not all colleges offered amnesty. I took it for granted that they did. IMO, it’s INSANE not to do so. And the idea that a kid who has had a few drinks and calls for an ambulance for a kid who has had so many he’s lost consciousness can be disciplined while a kid who walks away and lets another kid DIE gets off scott free is insane. </p>
<p>So, start asking questions. If colleges learn that in choosing where your child will attend college, the existence of the Red Watch Band or similar program will be a factor in your decision, maybe something can be done. </p>
<p>Red Watch Band is NOT about educating kids about the evils of alcohol. It’s about knowing what to do if someone has way too much to drink.</p>
<p>Please don’t tell me that this will encourage drinking. I can’t believe it will. And I’d never want my own kid to be the one who was worried about a friend but decided not to get help or simply put him/her to be to “sleep it off” --and learned later that the friend had died.</p>
<p>Some campuses give students “how to recognize and what to do for alcohol poisoning” cards. You could make your own for your kids if the colleges don’t do it.</p>
<p>[CADEC</a> ~ Programs & Services ~ Alcohol Poisoning Prevention](<a href=“http://www.csuchico.edu/cadec/programs/alcoholprevention.shtml]CADEC”>http://www.csuchico.edu/cadec/programs/alcoholprevention.shtml)</p>
<p>My daughter’s school has amnesty for the patient and one student at the scene, no questions asked. My daughter said one of her friend did get sick at a party (turned out not alcohol related). One person called the hospital and stayed with the sick friend, and everyone else left.</p>
<p>Thank you for a wonderful post, Jonri. I have been a friend of the Sunshines for many years, and know how caring and committed they were to both of their children. Their grief at Matthew’s death was, and remains, terrible; and it was the smug, cruel “I blame the parents” comments on the Daily Northwestern site that prompted me to start this (perhaps unfortunately named) thread.</p>
<p>None of us wants to think that something like this could ever happen to us, but unfortunately most of our children will do something really stupid and dangerous at least once in their lives (as have most of us if we’re willing to admit it). Most of the time we’re lucky: The kids drink way too much but quite enough to kill them, or someone watches out for them and calls for help. </p>
<p>I don’t know if colleges can truly stop risky behavior any more than parents can, but I believe they can do more to promote student safety. I think amnesty programs can help, as can more effective education through something like the Red Watch Band in how to recognize and respond to emergencies. (After Matthew died, I had some disturbing conversations with my own college-age kids and their peers that suggested that while the message about drinking and driving had gotten through, these young adults had dangerously naive ideas about the safety of leaving a drunken, possibly unconscious friend to “sleep it off.”) Colleges can actively foster a culture in which, as the Dean of Harvard College once put it, “The main thing we don’t want is for someone to die” ( <a href=“http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~lewis/Alcohol-Independent.pdf[/url]”>www.eecs.harvard.edu/~lewis/Alcohol-Independent.pdf</a>). </p>
<p>Jonri sums it up perfectly:
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<p>Due to budget constraints, our public school district no longer has health classes. Thus the danger signs of alcohol poisoning are not being taught. I know it’s the parents’ responsibility to teach kids, but a lot of us have gotten used to the idea that the school will teach alcohol/drug/sex info. Not true any longer, apparently.</p>
<p>I’ve read about the Red Watch Program…and I will be writing the President of my son’s college to suggest its implementation (his school currently does NOT have an amnesty policy).
Honestly, I think that the hesitation of most schools to implement this policy is fueled by a general attitude that drinking is harmful, and that it’s wrong to do anything to encourage it. IMO, we’ve had a knee jerk reaction to this issue and have gone to far in the wrong direction here…becoming punitive where no harm is done.
I’ve been browsing an interesting site by David Hansen (who has a PHD and has done much work in this area) where he disputes many of the long held beliefs and even some of the statistics presented over the last ten years. Makes interesting reading. Here’s one piece that is related to the OPs question (btw, he’s a big supporter of amnesty programs)
[Just</a> Say No Fails](<a href=“http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/YouthIssues/1074803132.html]Just”>http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/YouthIssues/1074803132.html)
“Instead of trying to scare young people into permanent abstinence, we need to recognize that it is not alcohol but rather the abuse of alcohol that is the problem”.</p>
<p>This is sort of OT–sorry. I seem to remember that there was a thread about a student who boasted on CC that he could binge drink with no consequences, but unfortunately later died from alcohol poisoning. I have searched but haven’t found the thread yet. Does anyone have a link?</p>
<p>[In</a> postings, a tragic portrait of defiance - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2006/04/14/15232/]In”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2006/04/14/15232/)</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1684565-post47.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1684565-post47.html</a></p>
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<p>Thank you, SV2.</p>
<p>This thread is very illuminating. We hear so much about the dangers of binge drinking lately (by lately, I mean in the last five years or so). I wonder if there was as much problems with this when the drinking age was lower. When I went to college, the age was 18 and while there was a lot of drinking at frat parties, I never heard of people dying from alcohol poisoning as we do now.</p>
<p>Unfortunately my D learned of the dangers of this in high school with two unfortunate experiences. One involved a student on a field trip that brought vodka smuggled in water bottles and drank so much 911 had to be called. Needless to say there were lots of consequences to that. The other occurred at a post-prom party at a hotel where the same thing happened, one child drank so much the others were scared and called 911. We had several conversations about the effects of alcohol, how much is too much, and what to do if you see others in this situation (bottom line, call 911 if you have the least concern about it).</p>
<p>I didn’t realize amnesty or the lack thereof is an issue on some campuses, I agree, that is important to know.</p>
<p>Have not had the “red cup” conversation in the way described above, but have had several conversations of the variety of warning her never to drink from a cup that has been out of her sight, even for a second, not to let someone else get the drink for her, etc. Unfortunately I had an experience when I was in college with drinking from a cup that I didn’t know where it came from or who filled it, and let’s just say I was lucky that it ended well although it was not pretty. That is also a very important conversation to have, especially with young women.</p>
<p>My D assured me tha amnesty isn’t really an issue at her U (USC), since it already has a huge rep as a “party school.” She says she & her friends are fine with calling for an ambulance if they feel anyone needs one and actually did when they thought a girl was in trouble (turned out she was OK).</p>
<p>It IS a much more complicated world than the one I recall when I was their age. I know some folks did drink too much but somehow I was never around anyone when they were passing out or hugely over-indulging. Have reminded her about beverages (& food, for that matter). She promised that she & her friends are very careful & all watch out for one another. They have done a great job of keeping an eye on one aother so far.</p>
<p>I did send an e-mail to their school, asking about amnesty & also about having their U join the red watchband program, as it can only help, in my opinion.</p>