Older D wanted to go to Yale or Brown. Didn’t happen although she was wait listed at Brown and that made her happy. She ended up going to state U with a full tuition scholarship and was admitted to the Honors College. She was definitely the cream of the crop at this school. First thing she was interviewed for a position on the board of a special interest organization that addressed her passion. The university provided multiple opportunities for her to win scholarships for study abroad and national recognition. Her senior year she was awarded a Fulbright scholarship to pursue her passion in Denmark. Guaranteed she would have never had those opportunities at an Ivy, because it would have been too competitive. For her, a lesser school was the answer.
The best college for your kid isn’t normally the most prestigious.
It is the best fit for them.
The school they will thrive in.
It’s not about bumper stickers and sweatshirts
The “admit only the very top of the high school class” was your unstated assumption. Once you get away from the more selective range of colleges, admit-by-formula-of-GPA-or-rank-and-test-scores is likely much more common.
Most of them are fairly big ponds, but some have a wider range of fish sizes than others. For example, Ole Miss presumably has every size of fish from the biggest ones to the smallest ones (NCAA minimum academic eligibility is sufficient for automatic regular admission for Mississippi residents, even for non-athletes, according to http://admissions.olemiss.edu/applying-to-ole-miss/freshmen/ ).
You could poke holes in some of the facts, but it may be a balm to my D at the end of this admissions roller coaster we are currently on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1-uj0ToVY
^That was good to read. I would agree with it in general. It’s all about the “fit” factor too.
Having been about the smartest one in her grade all her life, DD says she’s tired of it and wants to be where there are lots of people smarter than her. She has been accepted at a school where that will be the case. However, she has never really had to work at school and I wonder if she will be able to thrive despite the double challenge of not being the smartest and also having to learn to work hard. I guess we will find out as I expect she will end up attending.
Many kids “grow where planted,” and do just fine without our extra stresses. Our S really wanted to go to a competitive U and be in EE, which was even more competitive. D started at local CC and transferred to be with her brother at competitive U in a different competitive field (cinema). It worked out well for both of them, as we let them research and make choices based on their preferences. Both kids actually got better grades in college than in HS.
@palm715 , that was thought that made me ask this question – thanks for finding that! Much more entertaining than my question!. It’s so easy to say “it’s about fit”, but the question is, do I fit better when I’m outperforming my peers or when I’m challenged to keep up with them.
If you talk to people who compete in head to head speed sports (running and swimming, for example), some will tell you that they will work harder to defend a lead than to get one. Others are just the opposite – if someone passes them, they’re spurred to go faster. The trick is figuring out which environment will be best for each individual.
My daughter would be very very stressed, possibly to a dangerous level, in an environment where she would be challenged keeping up with her peers. She avoided applying to schools that appeared ( to her) to be that way. At the same time she does not want to be in an environment where she was always outperforming her peers. She seems to have found the right balance and is doing very well.
Some of the answers seems to be predicated around prestigious school versus less prestigious school, but that doesn’t necessarily answer the question of big fish/small pond or small fish/big pond. There are a lot of prestigious schools out there that have high admissions standards, that may not be the ‘big pond’ it would seem to be (big pond meaning the kids there are these intellectual giant who will drive someone forward). Likewise, the school with seemingly ‘lower’ level of students might in fact be more a big pond intellectually, because the school seeks out kids who want knowledge, who enjoy learning, rather than spend their time gaming the admissions systems to get into a top level school…
In the end the real question itself comes down to what drives a student. Some kids need to be around others who are smarter than they are, better than they are, to give them motivation, other kids don’t care. I also will add, getting back to my original point, that when we say smarter/better, what do we mean? Is a school full of kids who have been focused their whole lives on getting into an elite school necessarily going to drive people forward? There are a lot of kids at elite universities and colleges who have little curiosity bout things outside their classes, for example, and that might be a turn off for some kids, whereas another school might be full of lot of diverse, interesting kids who help drive them forward, it all depends (and even at the schools famous for being a target destination as a name to go to, there are always a lot of bright, curious kids, too, along with the spawn of driven parents who aren’t curious about much).
This comes up all the time with music schools for performance degrees, about whether it is better to shoot for let’s say a Juilliard or similar level school, that probably would be more expensive, or take admission at a school where the typical student is not as strong musically, but where the kid might be able to get a good merit scholarship and have an excellent teacher…and it all comes down to the student, some get ‘driven up’ by being around top level students, others are perfectly fine as long as the teacher is good.
In terms of the big pond versus small pond (in terms of school size, not necessarily level) it depends on the kid as well, but my feeling always has been that a big school might be better, simply that because statistically, you might find other students you fit in with easier, because there is a larger pool. A kid might not do well at a small school where Greek life and sports dominate, where the kids are relatively homogeneous, if that is not their bent (on the other hand, there might be kids who love that kind of environment). If a kid is unsure, the larger school might be a better bet for a fit, simply because a large school tends to be an ocean of ponds of various sizes, rather than one ocean all the same.
@Studious99 The only problem is he wouldn’t really know it. He thinks he could have but who knows what would have happened if followed the path not taken? Also, some kids may feel that they would be happiest at HYPSM. I will say this though. At least back in my days, having attended an Ivy school at least got you an interview; but in my case, as soon as they found out what my GPA was, they didn’t offer me a job, which actually helped me decide faster that my future lay in a business of my own. lol I think the key is knowing who you are NOT rather than knowing who you ARE. I knew early on, I could never work for a big company where I had to schmooze higher-up people, but at the same time, I was very good at selling myself. I was very bored with academic stuff because to me, it wasn’t a real life. I was very happy to get the heck out of college even though it was free.
I would say that the best merit aid will be received from a school where your child will be a stand out. If your student is just an average student for that school then they are not inclined to give you huge merit aid.
I agree that it really does depend on what is a good fit for the student. It also depends on what they plan to major in.
For example if a student is premed I would suggest a school where they can graduate debt free knowing that medical school is a possibility in the future. They need a high gpa and good MCAT scores. (along with good research opportunities)
If they plan to study business I think the choice of college may matter more. For engineering it should be an accredited program. If a child attends a big state school and is part of the honors program it can feel like a small school within a big school. Participating in an honors program can give the student the privilege of priority registration for classes. They will be challenged because the smart kids attend all types of schools. Many choose the instate school simply because it is more affordable then going out of state. Not everyone is comfortable to go into massive debt for a bachelor’s degree especially if there are other siblings to consider.
Does the student wish to live in another city after college graduation? Perhaps they prefer to attend a specific school based on the local job market and the ability to do internships while going to school. Smart kids can also have challenges with transition to going away to college and having to manage their independence and being able to make smart decisions on their own.
The four years of college is a period for a student to grow and transition to the role of adulthood. I think there are a lot more factors in deciding where to attend college. It really comes down to where the student will be comfortable and thrive for the next four years. It also depends on their personality. Are they the type to be proactive about going to a professor’s office hours for help if needed. Do they have self discipline to manage social life and academics without parental supervision. Can they make good decisions or choices for themselves on their own? Lots of students are stars in high school but in college they find themselves in the middle of the pack because they are surrounded by other kids who were also stars in their high school. Are they good with time management? They may have breezed through high school but do they have good study habits to manage the academic workload in college. These are just some points to consider in choosing a school. A student can go to the best school that they get accepted to but if they don’t take advantage of the opportunities or facilities that school offers then they are not benefiting from attending that school. Every school has opportunities to help you grow. It is the students responsibility to take advantage of those opportunities that exist.