Bill's answer to if Hill will support Obama

Parent Cafe
21

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s a bit hyperbolic, don’t you think? AA’s don’t have any such power, nor the inclination to “kick the Clintons out of the Democratic party”. If Hillary were to pull out the nomination, I am very confident that most AfAms would vote for her over McCain. She would be the the Democrat, after all. Black people just don’t vote Republican. So they would either have to vote for Hillary come November, or stay home. I just don’t see the majority of AfAms staying home.</p>

<p>If it were perceived that she “stole” the nomination from Obama, plenty of blacks would be angry, but they would settle down and fall in line behind her, if only because the alternative would be seen as totally unacceptable. Obama would endorse her and probably campaign on her behalf. Hillary would court the AfAm community to heal the riff. The Clinton’s capital in the community might not ever return to where it was prior to this race, but she could still count on their vote, if it came down to her or a Republican.</p>

22

<p>poetsheart:</p>

<p>That’s not the issue. The question is whether any of the working class white voters will vote for the Democratic nominee after being told that the only reason they supported Clinton is that they are racists.</p>

<p>I don’t believe they will. There is tremendous resentment that the nomination was stolen by nullifying the voters and delegates in two of the largest states in the country, that voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.</p>

<p>Good luck with the New Democratic Party coalition. If you study the Electoral College map, you are going to need it.</p>

23

<p>

</p>

<p>If that’s not the issue, why did you bring up the (I have to say) rather bitter comment about AfAms having “essentially Kicked Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton out of the Democratic Party”? I was just addressing that thought. You’re probably right about working class white voters not voting for Obama—at least not the ones in the Appalachian states. And you may be right about Florida and Michigan voters too. Oh well…:rolleyes: Like I said, I’m still undecided myself. Read Drosselmeirer’s posts concerning his feeling that racism, along with Obama’s probably not possessing “the goods” to be the type of extraordinary leader needed to overcome the pitfalls, and you’ll see a pretty accurate representation of my thoughts on his candidacy.</p>

24

<p>poetsheart:</p>

<p>I brought up the Af Ams accusing Bill and Hillary Clinton of racism and driving them and their supporters out of the New Democratic Party because I was responding to this statement from somebody named “aapride” that expresses the same “get lost” attitude:</p>

<p>

</p>

25

<p>Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I completely disagree with the above quote by aapride. And I don’t think she should leave the race until one of them has locked up the nomination.</p>

26

<p>I disagree with it, too. However, that’s the New Democratic Party. Its leadership, including Donna Brazille and key Obama campaign operatives, have made it quite clear that they neither need nor want the support of traditional white Democrats and Latino/a voters.</p>

<p>Despite what the DNC believes, these voters aren’t stupid. They get the message. They see the intentional demonization of the only two-term Democratic President since FDR. They can see the race card played by Obama’s national campaign chair. They can see Obama’s campaign call them racists as the only explanation for their votes. They can here Obama supporters like Clair McCaskill say that the New Democratic Party doesn’t need to waste its time appealing to the rednecks in Kentucky. </p>

<p>That’s why large numbers of them are prepared to leave the New Democratic Party and its new coalition of African Americans, college students, and Starbucks liberals.</p>

27

<br>

<br>

<p>Can Obama win Florida and Ohio?</p>

28

<p>I can’t imagine any scenario in which the New Democratic Party beats John McCain in Ohio or Florida with Obama as the nominee.</p>

<p>McCain will almost certainly pick the very popular governor of Florida, Charlie Crist, as his running mate while the New Democratic Party has kicked the state in teeth, ignore 2 million voters, and written the state off.</p>

<p>The moderate “Reagan Democrat” white voters in Ohio voted overwhelmingly against Obama in the primary, as did the voters in almost all of the big states.</p>

<p>But, as leaders of the New Democratic Party have said, winning Presidential elections isn’t everything. I guess they should know. They have a lot of practice at losing them. Sane political strategists would run as fast as they can from anyone John Kerry or Donna Brazille or Ted Kennedy endorses. But, not the New Democratic Party. It’s called, “let’s lose the moderate suburban and rural voters again.”</p>

29

<p>I agree I bet McCain will pick Crist as his Veep essentially giving him Florida. I also think he will put Romney out on the stump to bring in the conservatives. Romney would not be able to deliver MA, so he will be floated out there as maybe someone like Sec of Treasury. Then he’ll bring out Lieberman to stomp and float his name as Sec of Def. This is similiar to Clinton have Richard Cohn to give Repubs confidence that the military was still run by a repub…this time it will be the flip side with giving dems the confidence that there isn’t a hawk in the Pentagon. By placing these people out there he will be able to gain the independents, some dems (the admant anti-Obama voter), the conservatives with Romney and Crist is young and vibrant, and well liked.</p>

<p>Some people will make it a joke about 2 gray haired guys, but I think they will start floating out how active McCain is in the media, just this week the media has been discussing for a man his age or any age they said he wears out the reporters, especially when he took his son Jack last week and hiked the Grand Canyon tip to tip in 3 days!</p>

30

<p>Crist is a very attractive, very energetic looking man, despite his gray hair. That could mollify some people’s fears about McCain’s age (a fear I’ve never shared). BTW, did anyone see the clip (I believe it was from STL) in which he made fun of himself, referencing his age? He was extremely sporting about it, saying something about his what his grandchildren, his great-grandchildren, his great-great-grandchildren, and his great-great-great grandchildren say about him. It was hysterical! My H and I were cracking up! And I thought, that was very smart of him—to act as if the age thing was only worthy of humor.</p>

31

<p>Yes, I saw it and it was very funny because he ended it with his great great grandchildren currently becoming eligible for SS…I thought it was funnier when he did the weekend news and said he was a big enough of a man to allow Obama and Hillary fight it until Nov.! </p>

<p>He is taking the play card from Reagan when he said he would not hold it against Mondale for his youth!</p>

32

<p>Interested dad:</p>

<p>Why do you think Obama will not win? Obama is charismatic and He is running on a theme to change the Washington business. This theme has been used by every single running President including Regan, Clinton and BillClinton . He has attended Columbia and Harvard. Based on merit, he was editor for Harvard Law Review. He has done extremely well in campaign donation. In adiiton, he has won the support from white voters as without their support he would have not won Iowa, Minnesota, Oregon, Georgia, and some thirty other states. I bet McCain cannot compete with him in fund raising. Of course Hillary support would be nice, but as long as he makes another of her supporter VP candidate, he will win. Jewish community will support him, as he is a big supporter of Israel. Women voters will support him over McCain because of Republican views. He is a winner. Obama 08</p>

33

<p>

</p>

<p>Woops, not so fast on that one. All 3 candidates support Israel appropriately, acc to Alan Deshowitz. Jewish Democratic vote is currently split between Hillary and Barrack. Also, there are more Jewish Republicans than ever before. </p>

<p>I’d describe the Jewish vote as multi-dimensional. Support of Israel is top or near-top of the list of criteria. Once that’s a check-mark, then everything else is considered, from economics to social justice issues. </p>

<p>Obama knows he has to convince the Jewish community, as the Wright episode was a real PR setback for him. </p>

<p>But he’s already begun that dialogue in recent days. 5% of the vote in Florida is Jewish and he really needs their support. His campaign says they’ll do it patiently, by word of mouth, “one mah-jong table at a time.” They need to undo a lot of misinformation that was corrected in campaigns in other states where he was actively campaigning. For example, it’s still circulating in Florida among Jewish voters that he’s a Muslim. That’s a matter of correcting information, and it takes time. </p>

<p>Also, his track record in this campaign demonstrates people like him more and more, the longer they know him. He’s an acquired taste. For the Jewish vote as I understand it, this patient in-person approach works better than big blow-out speeches.</p>

<p>I think Hillary is a key player in swinging her voters over to support him. She can campaign vigorously for Obama, or simply go through the motions, and it will be obvious. </p>

<p>McCain can huff and puff about being tough, but most Jewish voters recognize the complexity of the Middle East. To me, McCain’s Israel stance resembles tired old playground posturing and I’m underwhelmed.</p>

<p>Hillary has long been a supporter of Israel, once she changed her position about a unified Jerusalem but that’s l0 years ago. So okay, she got it right finally. </p>

<p>I think the underestimated issue for Jewish voters is whether the candidate sounds as though they understand poor people, since mostly we were poor until very recently, even in this country. So I think either Hillary or Barack impress as representatives of hard-working, upwardly mobile, education-oriented candidates.</p>

<p>McCain, I think, only appeals to Jewish Republicans at this time.</p>

<p>A candidate’s stance on Israel, health care, educational opportunities…those are issues that concern Jewish voters a lot. They don’t care which gender, race, or age delivers them, either.</p>

34

<p>I agree with what you say. But gas prices are becoming important, any US president has to play a delicate role of balancing act between its oil need and supoor of Isreal. Right nowpolitics of oil is becoming a very prominent problem.</p>

35

<p>

</p>

<p>Not just Florida, apparently. I live in Virginia, a few months ago, I was discussing Barack Obama with a Jewish friend of mine. She very adamantly stated that she would never vote for Obama because he is a Muslim, and her religion forbids her to vote for a Muslim. Furthermore, she said, “I just don’t trust him”. </p>

<p>I was shocked that she believed Obama to be a Muslim, since the press and television media (even pre-Rev. Wright) had often reported of his 20 yr. Church of Christ membership. She had never heard of it. For a long time, she simply didn’t believe me when I told her he was a Christian. But what I think is truly sad, is the common perception among Americans, that being a Muslim marks one as somehow morally deficient or dangerous.</p>

36

<p>Poetsheart :</p>

<p>You are mis infomed Obama was born in a atheist family. He is neither muslim nor Christian. He changed his religious views. But first he is a human being and decent one. </p>

<p>If muslim stop sending the world oil, we will go for a very deep recession. I hope not as it will be problem for religious or atheist in equal terms.</p>

37

<p>

</p>

<p>Sad, indeed! However, also somewhat interesting when one considers how the other Democrat candidate answers to such criteria a lot better.</p>

38

<p>No aapride, I’m not misinformed. Barack Obama’s father was an Atheist, and he was raised by his mother and grandparents to be non-religious. But he became a Christian twenty years ago. He outlined the path of his conversion quite exhaustively in his Memoirs. To believe that he’s an Atheist requires one to also believe he’s out and out lying about his professed Christianity.</p>

39

<p>poetsheart :</p>

<p>I know he changed his religion to Christanity. Think about aminute, all religion tecahes tolerance yet name of religion we fight amon ourselves. Religion is a private thing. A person who belives in true religion, respect other peoples dignity and love humankind.</p>

40

<p>Funny, aapride, you probably didn’t notice that you capitalized the h in “He” when you referenced BO.</p>

<p>I worry that BO thinks he is ready for the job of commander in chief. To me, this points to the possibility of a grave character flaw. Hubris in the extreme. Similar to Edwards in that regard.</p>