Binge Drinking in US colleges - Renamed thread

Parents Forum
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<p>To me, by far the biggest problem with drinking is DUI. That is why I think it would be a horrible thing to lower the drinking age. We have already seen its effect. By lowering the drinking age to 18, like it used to be, means that now all of the high school parties will have someone who is of legal age to buy the booze. Of course drinking occurs at some high school parties now, but it would be far worse if the seniors can legally buy the stuff. What makes drinking in high school much worse than drinking in college is that in almost all circumstances driving is involved.</p>

<p>That is why I am not as concerned about college drinking because in college, the converse is true. Because drinking (at least for the first few years) is quite often relegated to frat houses, apartments or dormitories and typically all within walking distance of “home”, driving is held to a minimum. Of course there will be excesses and occasional tragedies, but nothing like the carnage that would result if driving were involved as a result of opening up the floodgates of drunken drivers by lowering the drinking age.</p>

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So many things wrong with this statement, ID. First of all, as has been shown, we don’t know what Wechsler’s use of the term “binge drinking” really means. Five shots of vodka in half an hour? Or five bottles of beer over 6 hours? FYI, In his first report, he acknowledged that it might be useful “in the future” to establish a time frame for these alleged “binges”–but never bothered to deal with it. Might have interfered with his TV appearances.</p>

<p>Beyond this, his inflated “binge” rates create a false impression that “almost everyone” is doing it…thus, the “social norm” is supposedly “bingeing.” You really should read aparent5’s link before you and Mini sling any more factoids from Wechsler advocacy research. If you have read it, I’m not surprised that neither of you have attempted a rebuttal…because that’s really all you’ve got, in this peculiar avocation/vendetta of yours.</p>

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<p>As a parent, I’d be glad to go along with a return to the 18-year old drinking age if we could get them to raise the driving age to 21! </p>

<p>Wow. Talk about putting gray hairs on your head!</p>

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Go ahead, take a stab at it, you Williams College whack-a-moles. It has footnotes and everything. <a href=“http://www.alcoholfacts.org/Wechsler.html[/url]”>http://www.alcoholfacts.org/Wechsler.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I read the Potsdam professor’s article a year ago. </p>

<p>As Wechsler has said, you can call binge drinking whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but that doesn’t change the behavior or the negative consequences on campus life and student well-being.</p>

<p>BTW, Wechsler’s research does not show that “everybody’s doing it”. The national average is that 56% of US college students have not consumed five or more drinks in a row within the prior two weeks. In other words, at the average college in the US, the majority of the students are not frequent heavy drinkers.</p>

<p>It is only at the schools in Weschler’s “high-binge” category where the majority of students are “doing it”.</p>

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Well then, have at him, man! Or is Potsdam not a prestigious enough SUNY outpost to stir a Williams man to action?</p>

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That’s what’s known as a “figure of speech.” Obviously, if everyone were really doing it, you would be popping up here every day with Wechsler studies showing a 100% binge drinking rate.</p>

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<p>Driver:</p>

<p>I’m not the one trying to rationalize college drunkenness as normal behavior. I find the amount excessive alcohol consumption and associated disruptive behaviors at my daughter’s school troubling, regardless of what you want to call it.</p>

<p>I would like to see the research that shows that the average college social function lasts six or seven hours. Parties at my D’s school officially start at 10 pm, although most kids don’t go that early. They must shut down at 2:00 am.</p>

<p>I do take solace in the Potsdam professor’s assertion that the fact that only 52% of the heavy drinkers are estimated to be above the legal BAC limits for every state in the country.</p>

<p>I am also very relieved to read of the Postdam professor’s assertion that binge drinking occurs less frequently than admission to emergency rooms for alcohol poisoning at many schools or that there are fewer binge drinkers than female students who have been sexually assaulted.</p>

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<p>Penn State’s 76% rate is close enough for government work in my book.</p>

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I’m sure it is close enough in your book. But did those 25,000 students tailgate at a football game a single time during the fall? Or do they all drink a pint of straight vodka every Saturday night in an hour? Or do they send in their surveys as a prank, to collect the reward “lottery” money that Wechsler offers? You don’t know. And neither does Wechsler.</p>

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<p>Here is gems from your boy David J. Hason, PhD.:</p>

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<p>Can you say, crackpot?</p>

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In fact, I can! And I’m going to say goodnight to one right now :slight_smile: I don’t blame you for changing the subject. We can talk about near-death experiences with cell-phone yakkers tomorrow. Maybe you should start a new thread?</p>

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<p>Penn State’s research isn’t done by Wechsler. It is an annual survey conducted on campus by Penn State.</p>

<p>Here’s a link:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.sa.psu.edu/sara/pulse/106-Drinking.PDF[/url]”>http://www.sa.psu.edu/sara/pulse/106-Drinking.PDF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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Yes, but they use Wechsler’s “definition” of binge drinking. I really am going to bed now, and I wish you a fruitful night of frantic, obsessive internet research.</p>

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<p>QUOTE: “The cultural difference comes when… five out seven folks who drink at all, binge drink or (if you don’t like the term), say they “drink to get drunk”, and did so at least once in the past two weeks (many did more).”</p>

<p>Now, where did the 5 out of 7 statistic come from and which school is it referring to? In addition to mud-slinging the statistics-slinging is getting dizzying. </p>

<p>QUOTE: “Well, if the finest institutions in the country (yes, Williams, and Amherst, and Dartmouth, among others, definitely are among them) raise a generation of leaders who believe binge drinking (and its related attributes) are socially acceptable, what will that mean for future trends in our society?”</p>

<p>This statement definitely falls in the “Are you still beating your wife category?” Just who believes that binge drinking (defined as dangerous anti-social behavior) is socially acceptable?</p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly that the problem with this discussion is the flawed definition and emotional connotation of the term “binge.” (Many thanks to Apparent5 and Driver for the references.)</p>

<p>I can imagine if similarly loaded – and deceptive and misleading – epithets were attached to other colleges, we would get a like rise out of those parents too. Of course we are defensive! You’re calling our kids and their friends “bingers” for heavenssake. You are implying that we parents are not doing enough to protect our children from a dangerous envirnoment.</p>

<p>For so-called concerned alums incessantly to batter and bash their almamater and then attribute it to just trying to keep make the world a better place, is a bit like the fox giving the gingerbread man a lift across the stream. Lacks credibility.</p>

<p>The problem with this recurrent tendency toward “Gotcha!” moments is that they prevent the authentically concerned parents from raising issues that really are worrisome. For example, my son is going to be a Junior Advisor next year and I’m sure that he will encounter all sorts of complex and troublesome issues (including alcohol abuse) that would make interesting conversation on this board. </p>

<p>But the reality is that any admission of vulnerability will be punched and pounded into an unrecognizable pulp of “See, see, I was right! It’s Animal House over there.” Several parents have pm’d me with comments like “I don’t dare bring this up because I know it will get blown out of proportion.” I feel like we’re being forced underground with the bingers!</p>

<p>Paleoalums – your kids didn’t choose Williams. They are happy. You are happy. We are glad. Our kids did choose Williams (or Princeton or Amherst or Dartmouth or anyone of the more sociable schools). They are happy. We are happy. It is not a contest.</p>

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<p>Paleoalums= the best new word of the day.</p>

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<p>Since the national average is that 44% of college students have consumed 5 drinks in a row (4 for women) at least once in the last two weeks, I would say that it’s plausible that any or all of our kids have done so…or been negatively impacted by others who have. To not accept that possibility would be hiding our heads in the sand. Should that be the case, I would not view it as the end of the world. </p>

<p>I know for a fact that my daughter has been inconvenienced by “binge drinkers” at her school – frat boys puking in her dorm while being hazed (er…I mean…while learning about the rich traditions of brotherhood and becoming balanced men). We’ve talked about it. No big surprise. Drinking 'til you puke is clearly a part of college life at virtually every campus, to some degree. Heck, the Dartmouth survey shows that 1 out of 5 students have puked in public in the last year. Even at “low-binge school”, you have to assume that the number is still 1 out of 10 or more. How can any of us be “defensive” when it happening at every school every one of our kids attends?</p>

<p>I’m curious. Why do you associate higher rates of drinking with a “more sociable school?”</p>

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<p>"Why do you associate higher rates of drinking with a “more sociable school?”</p>

<p>I wasn’t aware that I did.</p>

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<p>I am really sorry that this thread has become so belligerent. I for one have no ax to grind, having no connections at all to the any of the schools being mentioned. But I do have an 18 year old S who is about to go to college, very far away. He is an athlete and a good student, a kid with goals and high motivation. He is very aware of what goes into his body and won’t eat junk food at all. Doesn’t smoke (doesn’t even like to be near kids who have had a cigarette recently). I don’t think he drinks or does drugs (and I am awake often enough when he arrives home late to interact with him to have a sense of it, I hope) but I will admit it is possible that he may drink in moderation on occasion. Certainly he knows kids who do. But he also has expressed an interest in joining a frat, likes to be among the popular people, and is very social, so while I have no agenda or ax to grind, I am interested in learning what I can about the alcohol culture at his school in particular and among college students in general.</p>

<p>I have found it enlightening to learn about the different attitudes towards Wechsler’s data. I was also interested to see that there is so much negative baggage some people associate with the term “binge” - doesn’t have that for me at all.</p>

<p>Anyway, when I read about kids dying from drinking too much (as I always do every fall) I get concerned, to put it mildly. This year, a freshman lacrosse player from a good prep school died at U of Colorado. As my son had considered but rejected that school, I was curious. And what I learned made me very sad and very nervous. Here was a kid who everyone at his HS school praised, who succeeded on and off the field, and who no one expected would meet such a fate in the fall. This kid sounded too much like my kid. While my heart hurt for his family, and for the loss of a kid at so young an age, it was impossible not to see this kid’s sad story in relation to my kid’s situation.</p>

<p>So I hope we can continue the debate, less in an effort to defend a school, or to post “gotcha” comments; less as a debate of semantics, but more in the spirit of trying to find out how serious a problem we have and what we as parents and they as colleges can do.</p>

<p>It seems to me that while we can debate the numbers or the definitions, there is definitely a problem. How can we better understand it, and how do we solve it?</p>

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<p><strong><em>NEWSFLASH</em></strong>*</p>

<p><strong><em>NEWSFLASH</em></strong>*</p>

<p><strong><em>BREAKING ALERT</em></strong></p>

<p>Kids consume alcohol in college!!!</p>

<p><strong><em>NEW NEWSFLASH</em></strong>**</p>

<p>Its probably unlikely to change!!!</p>

<p>*<strong><em>NEW NEW NEWSFLASH</em></strong>**</p>

<p>This “study” tells us nothing more than the sky is blue and that the sun rises in the east.</p>

<p>If you are <em>so</em> concerned, talk to your kids about it. Done deal. End of thread. Buh bye!</p>

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<p>This Williams alum (I guess I must be paleo too) wishes this thread had a different title. </p>

<p>I think the topic is a interesting one to hash out on CC (although kiddly your post made me laugh) - but I am as tired as the Williams moms (actually is driver a mom or dad?) are of insinuations that this is in some way a uniquely Williams issue. It’s not.</p>

<p> Good thought. I will rename the thread to expand the focus of the discussion beyond the lone Williams.<br>
Moderator Trinity </p>

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<p>The most critical first step is for educators, parents, alumni, and students to stop condoning campus drunkenness.</p>

<p>The second step is to identify the centers of hard-core drinking on campus and attack those aggressively. For example, when 80% of residential frat members self-report high levels of alcohol consumption, it’s pretty easy to identify a center of hard-core campus drinking. Very few kids could cover tuition, room and board, and frat dues independently if their parents just said, “no”.</p>

<p>With the change in drinking age now being well-entrenched, record numbers of high-school seniors now report not drinking in high school. Because problem drinking in college is so strongly associated with drinking in high school, this is a large non-drinking core of students who can begin to establish new social norms on campus – if they know that they have the option of choosing colleges where drinking is not the focus of campus social life. Right now, there is very little community support for choosing a “non-party” school. Kids don’t understand that college is fun regardless and parents are sitting on their hands in terms of providing leadership on this issue. As soon as colleges perceive a negative implication in the market-place associated with high binge-rates, they will get very serious about changing the culture.</p>

<p>For the same reason, colleges can have the most impact on existing drinking cultures by re-examining their admissions profiles. As many as 40% of graduating high school seniors don’t drink. It shouldn’t be terribly difficult to admit more from this group and fewer from the drinking group. As Mini says, the adcoms are seasoned professionals, good at getting exactly the class they want to get. If the President or the Trustees set a priority, I am quite sure the adcoms can meet their new targets – especially at highly selective colleges with large applicant pools.</p>