<p>Like I said, happy that there always are those who WANT to work for whatever reason.</p>
<p>The majority do not WANT to be there. They WANT to be home with their family and friends. Sure, there are always exceptions. I have a friend who recently moved to Colorado and volunteered to work at the Best Buy on Thanksgiving because her family is still here in MI and she wants the extra pay. She said she was one of about five employees in that position- the rest wanted to be home with friends and family. </p>
<p>Almost no one is going to quit because they have to work on the holidays. They need the money and corporations know that. That doesn’t make it right- in fact, it makes it even more despicable.</p>
<p>ETA: I often volunteered to work on holidays that weren’t Christmas because they weren’t big in my family and I wanted the extra pay (I’ve worked on Christmas, too). But I was lucky enough to have a choice. Most in retail don’t.</p>
<p>As someone who worked a lot of retail over the years. In retail there were 2 days you were closed, thanksgiving and Christmas Day. You were open New Years, Easter, 4th of July. It was nice to know that you could count on 2 days to be off. Now you just have one. Retail clerks work bad hours for not a lot of pay. </p>
<p>My H works in an industry that never closes. Someone was lamenting that her H was working, but he was making triple time. Helps pay for that holiday you are missing. If they would pay all those clerks triple time, I guess I could feel better about people missing family celebrations.</p>
<p>One of my kids will be working on Christmas (musician). He will fly here on December 26 and we will celebrate the holiday when he gets here. Our Christmas eve will be December 26, and we will open presents on the 27th. </p>
<p>DD usually works on Wednesdays (EMT) so really the holiday delay for us will be fine.</p>
<p>We will all be together when it works, and that is what matters.</p>
<p>Both DD and DS are grateful they are working on December 25…neither gets paid if they don’t work.</p>
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<p>I am sure that is also true for police and firemen, for airline workers, other transit (local bus, trains), for those in other hospitality (hotels, restaurants), for those in health care (hospitals(, those left on college campuses (limited food services is open), etc. Working on holidays is part of many industries. </p>
<p>How can ‘getting paid’ be “despicable”?</p>
<p>Retail clerks work bad hours for not a lot of pay. </p>
<p>This is true. It’s true every day. Most probably don’t want to be there most days. They are there for the paycheck and while they may not like working on Thanksgiving on payday they will be happy they put in those hours. For a shocking number of people the Black Friday craziness is just as much a tradition as eating a turkey. Another thing to remember is that most holiday workers are seasonal hires who know the deal going in to the job. They need the money.</p>
<p>Believe me the performers in NYC that are pounding the streets for work salivate for the opportunity to do so. </p>
<p>But there comes a time when it becomes compulsory, and I don’t know where we are with this. Right now, this year, most of the places open on Gray Thursday, around here anyways, offered extra money and it was a voluntary thing to take those shifts, which, according to my one son who has the pulse of these thing, were quickly taken up. No shortage of volunteers which is a scary barometer reading as to how tight things are for many people. But what if…what if it becomes required? In retail, if you are working in a store, it is out of the question to take time off for the rest of the weekend. Perish the thought you go away for a 4 day Thanksgivng weekend. No way. Comes with the territory. The same with the day after CHristmas and the leading right up to it. When are certain lines going to be crossed.</p>
<p>It’s the first year for my one son with a “real” job, and it didn’t look like he could come home for Thanksgiving as he did not the 6 months needed to take a vacation day. An 11th hour ruling allowed those who would make the 6 month mark within the calendar year to borrow against the accrued time, even though company policy stated you had to have the 6 months under the belt. This is a very good large company career type job and it had these constraints. He paid through the nose to get a flight home since it didn’t look like he could have that Friday after T-Day off unitl the last minute, and there was a bonus given in that the company decided to let that count as a half day instead of full–even more joy. But it was a new thing for that company–didn’t do it last year. So yes, there are those who do not get to come home for the holidays, who are not working min wage type jobs too. My son realizes how lucky he is to get these benefits of being paid for time off–never had that before. My other son working retail, did go in Thanksgiving day–we had early dinner to accommodate, and he worked much of yesterday as well, like well into the night going in early in the morning, after a late night shift on Thanksgiving And he is management, not shift, hourly, min wage. The store managers all had to be there too. Gotta strike when the iron is hot. They made quite a killing on T-Day. More than on the Saturday or Sunday following T-Day in previousl years. Not as much as Black Friday, but then they were open nearly 24 hours for that vs 4 for Gray Thursday, as they now call it in the media. That is money that would have never been made up, lost to other businesses that did open, had they stay closed. </p>
<p>I don’t like it either to see those who have to pound salt have even more salt to pound on a holiday, family day, but few families are exempt these days. When things were tight for us, I used to do catering venues on the holidays, and was paid quite a handsome some for my work, plus got all of the left overs. We did have some Thanksgiving and Christmases moved to a weekend day that we could all get off, and we don’t even remember which ones they were anymore. We just remember the fun and times that we did have, as we treated those actual days the holiday fell as just lounge at home, ordinary days. Doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things. As Thumper said “We will all be together when it works, and that is what matters.” I can vouch for that.</p>
<p>I’m sick of people comparing retail to cops, fireman, doctors, etc. There is NO comparison. Doctors etc are necessary to protect and save lives. Stores open up early solely for profit. No comparison. None.</p>
<p>Profit is bad? Interesting.</p>
<p>The comparison is about working on holidays. It happens. By the way, the cops I know who go to work on holidays are also doing it for pay not some greater good. Most are doing it with an eye on retirement. That is reality.</p>
<p>I grew up in Europe, and in my day there, the stores all closed early in the evenings, not open on Sundays, and forget the holidays. There was truly a restricted time to do ones shopping when I was young. Now, and here, it’s a whole other story, and there is a frenzy to get people’s money. It does give me qualms, no doubt about it.</p>
<p>But, truly, if you are in retail, in a capitalist society, which we are, it goes without saying that you have to strike while that iron is hot. A cliche, yes, but that 's the reality. I’m more concerned right now about those without the funds AND without the opportunity to make money, something that is a growing concern with this economy, than those who have to work the holidays and are getting paid to do so. </p>
<p>You say there is no comparison, Roman, and in many aspects no, but for those for whom every dollar is a concern, working the holidays in retail or whatever is essential. Maybe a lot more essential than to that doctor who decides to take off. Not to the people that would have been served in that a health care hands on worker can have a life saving/losing impact, but to the worker himself. Yes, there are ERs, hospitals, that are short handed because some of their employees would not come to work. But the retail worker trying to make ends meet is more in need of those hours of work ,if you follow what I am saying. And he often does not have the choices that some of those with skilled specialty positions do. Or the padding, assets and income wise. They truly need those hours. </p>
<p>Two of my kids worked the second shift of some soup kitchen type places on Thursday and will be doing so again on Sunday. Many of those eating their holiday meals there do work. They are severely underemployed and underpaid for their family needs. A lot of them did work the holiday, and are grateful for the venue of a holiday meal. I used to work the one place on holidays and right after, and you see a lot of struggling people. One of the big pitfalls around here, is trying to even get enough hours to work during any given week. The holiday season is a windfall of sorts as a lot of the rest of the year is so lean. These employers give as many employees part time hours and then mix it up to make it just about impossible to coordinate two or more jobs to make even close to a living wage. It’s really a disgrace the way this is being done. That is what bothers me more. Most of those working the holiday hours are relieved to be able to finally be making enough to nearly make ends meet. </p>
<p>It’s really scary to me. I’ve volunteered at food pantries and soup kitchens for years, and I’m telling you the trend is getting worse. A lot more of the working poor are having to use these resources and there are a lot more in that category. But I don’t see cops, firemen, doctors, in those food lines. I daresay, not a one. it’s more important to the personal walletsof those in the lower paying non regualr professions to have the opportunity to work. And no, I don’t like it, but what is the alternative? More government intervention? Who will make up the funds that are avalable to those who can work these extra hours?</p>
<p>CPTE…it was not only in Europe that stores closed early. When I was a little kid in Ohio…stores were NOT open on Sunday at all. Stores closed early (6 ish) all but one day of the week…usually the day of pay days which was Friday where we lived…but Thursday in other parts of the state. Banks closed too. And there were not any ATMs. Oh…and VIsa and MasterCard were not yet in existence. And of course no online shopping.</p>
<p>Stores were closed on all major holidays. Most also closed early on the “eves”.</p>
<p>The only place open on Christmas was the local Chinese restaurant. </p>
<p>The Friday after Thanksgiving was a big shopping day…but the stores opened at the regular times.</p>
<p>Online stores are open 24/7. Brick and mortar stores are facing competition that could not have been imagined back then. I don’t blame them one bit for doing whatever it takes to attract buyers. And buyers did come out and workers did get paid. And at least some of them needed and were grateful for the money. Calling this despicable is weird. Also, Thanksgiving is not that big a deal for everyone. H is from the UK. They don’t observe it.</p>
<p>For us it was always movie day. Concession stands were open.</p>
<p>Here’s a list I found of some stores that were open on Thanksgiving. I almost went out today and bought something at Michael’s but found out about them being open on Thursday and bought the item elsewhere. Unless these businesses can prove to me that their workers volunteered to work that day, they have lost my business. Any stores to add to the list? </p>
<p>Kmart
Walmart
Kohl’s
JC Penney
Sears
Michael’s
Toys r Us
Macy’s
Target
Old Navy
Best Buy
Staples</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure you can find workers at any one of those store who don’t want to work next Friday night either. Well-meaning but silly IMHO.</p>
<p>Around here grocery stores have always been open on Thanksgiving morning, closing at about 1PM. Good if you’ve run out of canned pumpkin or forgot the roasting pan.</p>
<p>Good point! I went grocery shopping Wed. & the clerk mentioned being open tomorrow in case we forgot anything. Wal-Mart and Target also have food.
Even turkeys!</p>
<p>While I completely agree that doctors, etc, need to work 24/7 because they’re saving lives. Their jobs are super important to everyone. No question.</p>
<p>Stores open up early solely for profit</p>
<p>However, to condemn a store who is making a decision for “profit” isn’t fair either. These corporations are employing tens of thousands of people. The success of those stores keeps paychecks coming for those many, many families. </p>
<p>As mentioned above, some have to do this to compete with online stores that are open 24/7.</p>
<p>They know that each family has limited number of dollars to spend. So, they’re goal is to be “the ones” who get those dollars. </p>
<p>CEOs, etc, who make decisions that allow those dollars to go elsewhere may find themselves fired as well. Those CEO’s and boards have to make decisions that will best keep all of their stores open. No one wants to announce that they’re closing 100+ stores across the country…throwing thousands of people out of work.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread but it reminded me of The Middle, the last episode where Sue and Frankie went Black Friday shopping and Sue was traumatized. LOL</p>
<p>I wonder if anyone has or will do a study on how many Black Friday shoppers buying items at 50% off are buying them to be resold for cash, no tax to other people or for mark-up for their own stores. I know someone who used to do this. The 50% that could be gotten on a product at a discounter was better than they were able to get as a vendor from a manufacturer or wholesaler… so buy a dozen at 50% and sell at full-price or whatever your own store discount might be-10%, 15% ?? I would think but of course would not know for certain that the guy arrested in NJ who became disorderly because Walmart would not let him buy 10 TV’s was not buying 10 TV’s for his own personal gift-giving.</p>
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<p>All those big stores mentioned above also have online stores that are open.</p>