Black in America 2

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<p>But shows like that tend to effectively marginalize those who are in the ghetto. The experiences are always a “learning” experience in an effort to de-conceptualize the security of the familial structure that is the nuclear family. In that sense the ghetto functions merely to be a relief by which those who live in normal life can learn and grow. And in doing so marginalizes the live of those who live in the ghetto and reduces their humanity. In this way the experience of Urkle in the ghetto is actually an affirmation of the existence of a bubble by acknowledging the world outside of it without directly engaging the individual members who have to live there, so the bubble remains intact. So if a child were viewing this show it wouldn’t cause them to actually realize that people live this way, but more so cause them to think that the ghetto and ghetto life is an aberration from the norm as opposed to something people experience on a daily basis. So those examples don’t count.</p>

<p>“Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve yet to hear of any white kid who felt “uncomfortable” being around other white folks. I’ve heard more times than I can count, white kids saying they felt “uncomfortable” being around “so many black people”, but certainly not around their own race of people.”</p>

<p>My d is white and so are her close friends, all 3 of them said they would not go to a particular NE LAC they got accepted to BECAUSE it was all white, they said they felt uncomfortable there. So it does happen.</p>

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<p>On the contrary, dbate, I happen to know that the phenomenon is all too common, and there aren’t any words to express the depth of sadness this makes me feel. Until we address within ourselves the internalized racism which causes us to so utterly disdain one another (and deep down, to despise what stares back at us from the mirror), I don’t see how we can truly overcoming many of the intractable problems we face in society. Whites don’t feel this way about other whites, and this fact is reflected in the way which they generally face life with all the racial confidence in the world. .</p>

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<p>I could be wrong, samiamy, but somehow, I doubt your D and dbate were speaking of the same type of “discomfort”. My guess is your D was speaking from a desire for racial and cultural diversity in her educational experience, expressing the fact that she sees little value in so much racial homogeneity in a place that’s designed to broaden her academic and social perspectives. Has she ever entered a store and thought, “Oh my God, look at all these white people:eek:?” Has she ever said, "I prefer black men. In fact, white men make me feel “uncomfortable”? Has she ever expressed the kind of disdain for her own race that dbates reports is so common among his group of friends and acquaintances?</p>

<p>^ Yeah. This is really the nasty underbelly of racism that blacks generally cannot bring themselves to face. Blacks who see other blacks like Dbate, often tend to become so livid, that they cannot evaluate themselves or the circumstances before them. On the other hand, blacks like Dbate are so desperate to run from socially defined “blackness” that any sort of a bitter response from blacks causes them to try to run faster. The fact is, however, no one can run from his skin.</p>

<p>I think this would be a fascinating place for blacks to begin in our attempt to heal ourselves. I do not think this is as complicated an issue as many try to make it. There are many black men who cannot see beauty in black women because they have been psychologically conditioned not to see it. But is there some sort of inherent aesthetic that makes whites prettier than blacks? I have thought about this for many years, and it was after several years of working with my kids and trying to manipulate my own aesthetic sense that I have become convinced that I know the answer. The answer is “absolutely not!” and it has been staring at us all the time. We have all seen how in some cultures there are physical features that are highly prized that were those features to exist in some other cultural context would be abominable. We have also experienced, most of us, people who initially turned us off physically, but who once we got to know them, became terribly attractive. We have tended to dismiss these respective responses as due to mere “cultural differences” and due to our falling in love with the person “inside” the person. But that is no explanation. I think, to make this shorter, what humans have done in these cases has been to take a set of unique pleasure experiences afford them by a person, and then transferred them to that person’s specific features so that the features become proxies for the experiences. When enough of this takes place between human populations, these features become generally attractive and the people literally cannot think differently, until something else comes along to change the aesthetic paradigm.</p>

<p>I think the phenomenon can and does happen in reverse. A woman may see “THE” man of her dreams. But upon getting to know him may begin to detest the very features that once attracted her. Even the masculine chin that she once loved, now makes the man look like a joke. Were everyone she met to give her the same intensely negative experiences, the very sight of those features would cause her revulsion.</p>

<p>I think this has happened to black folk, and that this is why some black folk wish to run from black folk. I think whites have done this to us by crafting for us our slave culture, which by definition was inferior to theirs. But I also think we have done this to ourselves by continuing much of this slave culture today. Some of the negative imagery and products of the culture have been transferred to our appearances over centuries so that in merely seeing us, many people today receive that negative imagery. Moreover, I think we continue to increase the problem by a wide variety of means, some of which we value deeply. No one likes a loser. Even those who understand the loser’s circumstances can only help but despise him. I think many blacks, rather than evaluate themselves here, simply run in the Ellisonian sense until later in life they discover that they have simply been running in circles.</p>

<p>It is a painful place to begin. But if we could calmly begin and hurt here for a bit, we would overcome and make our own decisions, for once, about who we are and what we ought to be. Poor Dbate here has, without knowing it, struggled all his life to be identified as white, despite that such a thing is futile. I think what he really wants is a blackness that is identified with power and authority, and not with so much failure. If we could give him this, culture and all, he would be very pleased to see beauty wherever it is, in Asians, Hispanics, in whites, and certainly in blacks. Currently, these sorts of blacks are like people who claim they do not like ballet. It is not that they do not like ballet. They are so ignorant of ballet that they cannot appreciate it. Ignorance is the mother of personal preference. When a black person cannot like black women, he indicates ignorance of those women, likely due in part to ignorance of himself.</p>

<p>I want to be sure to say here that I do not fault Dbate. It may make a lot of blacks angry, but I think there is a lot about black culture that should make a lot of blacks wants to run from it. I think it is just a mess. But, I also think it is pretty amazing, too amazing to just abandon as some blacks are wont to do. If we can deliberately retool it, and I think we should do so by deliberately inculcating some of the values of America’ Founding Fathers (as hard as that may be for some people to imagine), we could leave our kids with a cultural foundation that could revolutionize the whole world.</p>

<p>I see Dbate’s point of view. I met kids like that when I attended U-Mich in the 70’s. For all intents and purposes they had never been around Blacks and were uncomfortable around the few Black students that were there. I recall one who wore sheets with a pointy hat for Hallowen one year (that didn’t go over to well), but the kid really didn’t see anything wrong with it.</p>

<p>It is quite possible and probable that the parents deliberately create a bubble. I know we did. But we did try to find balance. The flip side of that is, the kid is immersed in this predominantly white or socio-economiuc class environment 8-10 hours a day and that is their reality.</p>

<p>As parents we want to give our children the best we can. What came from kid’s revelation was empathy and a sense of social injustice. </p>

<p>During spring break, she came back with her school to do volunteer work with high school students in the City, literally within a mile of her 1st encounter. She get’s it now and oh man, does she get it.</p>

<p>And yes, she actually recoiled during that 1st encounter at Forman Mills. Stereotypes came to life right before her eyes.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Silvermoonlock, I understand the parents wanted to protect Dbate from the harsh realities and give their child the best social and educational opportunities. But Dbate’s reaction towards less-well-off people is scary. Do you realize some of his black peers at Yale will ridicule him (especially those from major urban areas like Detroit or NYC)? Your average educated, middle-class black teen knows how to intermingle between black and white groups. In fact, it has been that way for many decades now. I don’t even think Dbate grasps the concept of W.E.B. Du Bois’ “Talented Tenth” – the black educated professional elite who also uplift their community through charity and education. </p>

<p>I never thought I would say this but it’s so important for black parents who live in well-established homogeneous suburbs to educate their kids about their culture and history. Dbate is too old to have naive views about black people; he has internalized the racial stereotypes in his upbringing. The parents focused so much on placing their child in a peffect environment, they forgot to teach their child common sense and consideration for other cultures, including their own race. That is seriously SAD.</p>

<p>Furthermore, where are his relatives? Does he even attend family reunions? I doubt all his cousins are upper-middle-class. Black people in general have relatives across all income brackets. Dbate moves to college in one month. He has so much he needs to learn before it’s too late. Get some books on African American history and read about major cities in the Northeast (New Haven, NYC, Boston, Philly, DC). The real world can be ugly if you are not prepared for it.</p>

<p>oldfort the only volunteer work my older son did was spend a summer at the local senior center helping with the computer lab - and I’m not sure it was at all critical getting into the only Ivy he applied to.</p>

<p>Ten, I get it. Dbate will just have some hard lessons to learn, if he wants to learn them. We all know people that just never looked back, and it’s really their right.</p>

<p>I think he is learning as he posts on these boards. He is reaching out, asking questions and the idea that he is not afraid to give his opinions is a good thing. He reads what is said and he may internalize it.</p>

<p>His perspective is different and we can’t blame or fault him for it, but he is open about it. He’ll learn and come to conclusions that make sense to him.</p>

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<p>Nonsense. Self esteem should not come from one’s race. It comes from one’s behavior. If a white person feels proud because whites have gone to the Moon, he or she has a false sense of esteem.</p>

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<p>No, I think you are mistaken. I find black women attractive, but at the same time I don’t think I will marry a black woman. I mean black women are mostly tall whereas I am not (I am 5’ 8’') and most black women would not want a short guy so it would be stupid to even attempt. And ever time I have liked a black girl she either said I was too white or only dated white guys. I find white women attractive, not because they are white but because they are attractive, it is a delineation that I think is important. </p>

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<p>No, I can honestly say that I have no desire to be white in the least sense of the word. I always had the opinion that black people who were failures in an academic or social sense were the black people who didn’t act black. I always considered school a top priority because I understood how hard our ancestors worked to afford us the opportunity. My despise of certain black youth stemmed from the fact that after years to work for the opportunity they squandered it and just acted in a way that was condemnable. I always thought being black meant that you WOULD study hard because we had worked so hard to have that simple right. </p>

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<p>The talented tenth seemed like a concept that created inherent strata in the black community and actually furthered the concept of dichotomies. It is, in my opinion, completely arrogant to designate one’s self as a “savior” of a race of people who have to lift them selves up.</p>

<p>Dbate,
Did you see the portion of Black in America about affluent blacks? The tuxedo ball? MLT? Maybe you need to watch the whole program. Why is it offensive to you to hear that black women face a dearth of black men if they want to get married?</p>

<p>There are several opportunities for you to see neighborhoods of various socioeconomic levels in the Houston area. Maybe you should go to some of them and try some shopping. Bet you don’t see any Abercrombies. If you go a few blocks off of the Yale campus you will find that all of New Haven is not a gothic wonderland. You will likely find many affluent blacks at Yale. However, I would guess that many of them have not led an extremely sheltered life and may have different perspectives from you. A lot of learning in college takes place outside of the classroom. I hope your next four years will be educational in every way.</p>

<p>Lotta lectures here, not much listening.</p>

<p>Black women are mostly tall?! That’s news to me.<br>
[Black</a> women in the U.S. appear to be shrinking - Chicago Tribune](<a href=“Chicago Tribune: Chicago news, sports, weather, entertainment - Chicago Tribune”>Chicago Tribune: Chicago news, sports, weather, entertainment - Chicago Tribune)</p>

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<p>LOL, the average black woman is 5’4-5’5. Tall and short black women exist. I do, however, believe some don’t date you because you are naive about the black community.</p>

<p>“Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve yet to hear of any white kid who felt “uncomfortable” being around other white folks. I’ve heard more times than I can count, white kids saying they felt “uncomfortable” being around “so many black people”, but certainly not around their own race of people.”</p>

<p>Not exactly sure what your getting at. I am only saying I don’t think Debate’s unfamiliarity or anxiety about being in a predominately Black environment is not that unusual for the typical suburban kid, no matter what their color. </p>

<p>To me, the fact that they are your OWN color, is among the things that make it a different cultural experience to be “Black in America”, no matter how rich or educated. It’s why I think “diversity” is good, and one reason I am paying for my D to go to a private school that has more Black students than the town she grew up in.</p>

<p>It seems just a bit ironic that the only person here to have clearly identified himself as black, is the one being lectured on how he should think about race and what sort of behavior should be seen as germane to the question, down to smug inferences that his preferred dating partners are ‘unacceptable’ because his perception does not fit the stereotype.</p>

<p>Dbate,
Unless New Haven has changed a great deal in the dozen years since recruited at Yale, you are going to learn a great deal about the world when you’re there. Stepping foot off campus will be quite a wake-up call for you:</p>

<p>"The US Census Bureau estimates a 2006 population of 124,001; the 2000 census lists 47,094 households and 25,854 families within the central municipality, the City of New Haven… The racial makeup of the city is 63.46% White, 37.36% African American, 0.43% Native American, 1.90% Asian, 0.06% Pacific Islander, 10.89% from other races, and 3.91% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino residents of any race were 9.39% of the population. Non-Hispanic whites made 75.57% of the population. The city’s demography is shifting rapidly: New Haven has always been a city of immigrants and currently the Latino population is growing rapidly…he large undocumented population in New Haven is also severely undercounted; estimates place as many as 10,000 illegal immigrants (mostly Hispanics) living within the city…</p>

<p>The median income for a household in the city is $29,604, and the median income for a family is $35,950. Median income for males is $33,605, compared with $28,424 for females. The per capita income for the city is $16,393. About 20.5% of families and 24.4% of the population live below the poverty line, including 32.2% of those under age 18 and 17.9% of those age 65 or over. …</p>

<p>[New</a> Haven, Connecticut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Haven,_Connecticut]New”>New Haven, Connecticut - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Check New Haven’s crime and family income stats here:
[MONEY</a> Magazine: Best places to live 2006: New Haven, CT snapshot](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL0952000.html]MONEY”>MONEY Magazine: Best places to live 2006: New Haven, CT snapshot)</p>

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<p>Yeah, but I knew about MLT and Jack and Jill already so it wasn’t new stuff to me. Some of my friends were in MLT and I got invited to join (they have a high school version as well) but I don’t want to go into business. The part about black women is offensive because it makes it seem as if “good” black men are somehow scarce something that I think is a little untrue. I know several smart black guys, and every black men that I know from high school is going to college and there are a lot of black people at my high school. So the concept that black men are somehow statistically lacking is somewhat offensive. </p>

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<p>I doubt that don’t date me because I am naive about the black community. The black girls I am specifically thinking about don’t date black men period or generally prefer the thug type of black guys. It doesn’t really matter though, because I rarely attracted to black girls, I do have black girls who are friends though. </p>

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<p>I visited New Haven in April for the first time and I will admit it was a bit shocking, mostly because it is blatantly dilapidated. There were even condemned buildings just sitting around, I just wondered why people hadn’t tore it down to build something new.</p>

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<p>Maybe it is only my point of view but alot of the black girls I know seem to be about my height, which is disconcerting in a relationship. Girls don’t want short men.</p>