“I object to the comment above “isn’t this the same fraternity …” considering that was in Oklahoma. Talk about tarring people with a broad brush! How exactly are kids in New Haven, CT responsible for what kids in Oklahoma did?”
If it conveniently fits the storyline, why not? Even if none of the frat members ever met or had anything to do with the others, if we can say something nasty about them—yeah, it works.
In fact, just the fact that they are young men (and probably from well off families for the most part), is good enough to smear them all. Who cares if any of it is true?
Actually, fraternities believe themselves to be national brotherhoods under the “same letters”. Please do not go down a straw man path comparing this to “just the fact that they are young men…” and so forth.
Considering that we’ve now heard news about SAE connected to racist, sexist, and violent behavior many times in the last months and years, this is definitely a pattern and a problem. At the very least, I would expect a chapter of SAE that wanted to distance itself from racism, to be working particularly to prevent offensive incidents and comments.
You have to wonder what kinds of parents permit/encourage their sons to join such an organization. Even if one wants a fraternity, there are dozens of other choices.
Even read in the context of, “lots of people started as Confederates in the olden days” - it’s pretty sickening. Apparently there have been incidents on and off for the past 159 years of the fraternity, including parties celebrating MLKJr’s assassination, hanging Black people in effigy, not-so-secret racist documents, black-face parties as recently as this decade, and more.
ETA: That was “SAE racism” - a search for “SAE sexism” gets some choice items as well, from colleges as Northern as Stanford, Yale, MIT, and Wash U, in addition to the other campuses we’ve discussed that tend to be in the South. Clearly the SAE culture is its own thing, carried far and wide in the various chapters. So no, it’s not something we can relegate to “Oklahoma”.
Um, some colleges have closed party systems where the attendees are put on a guest list and registered upfront. In that context, it’s entirely appropriate to ask if someone knows somebody, and it’s not offensive. It can be a liability issue. I have no idea if the system at the college in question is like that, but not all systems are set up so that any old passerby can wander in.
It think it’s pretty insensitive to be having this conversation at all with the poor vetting of this story. We can’t find an actual documented incident of racism to discuss? We’ve got to get outraged over a third handed- at best-“maybe” overheard, half baked and possibly entirely fictional account of racism at some frat party?
“Actually, fraternities believe themselves to be national brotherhoods under the “same letters”. Please do not go down a straw man path comparing this to “just the fact that they are young men…” and so forth.”
It’s a pretty wide statement to group everyone together. I cannot tell you how much contempt my older son (who was president of his fraternity) has for the national organizations. His opinion is that they are only interested in money, as a for profit organization, and care zilch about the students in the local organizations. Perhaps to national, they are all brothers (paying the fees), but you certainly can’t speak for all fraternity members.
“It think it’s pretty insensitive to be having this conversation at all with the poor vetting of this story. We can’t find an actual documented incident of racism to discuss? We’ve got to get outraged over a third handed- at best-“maybe” overheard, half baked and possibly entirely fictional account of racism at some frat party?”
You are certainly right about this. We shouldn’t even be participating in this kind of gossip. Though rumors and innuendos are more than enough for some.
“Actually, fraternities believe themselves to be national brotherhoods under the “same letters”. Please do not go down a straw man path comparing this to “just the fact that they are young men…” and so forth.”
Written from the usual blather of those who aren’t in the system and don’t know a thing of what they’re talking about. The XYZ house at College A really has nothing to do with the XYZ house at College B, except they both are members of a larger organization. It’s about as dumb as suggesting that the Chicago Cubs have accountability for what the Philadelphia Phillies do since they both are members of the National League.
I’m going to say two seemingly inconsistent things here. I think SAE at Yale is pretty bad, and I would shed no tears (quite the contrary) if they were banned from the Yale campus forever. I think they, and a couple of other frats, are a pernicious influence on Yale and I rue the day that they arose from near-death to hold social sway there, primarily because of the change in the drinking age.
However, if they are banned, it should be because of something they actually did. The evidence for this particular claim is pretty weak, in my opinion, and it seems highly unlikely that they were, in fact, holding a party limited to white girls. It also seems unlikely (although perhaps less unlikely) that any SAE member would say that only white girls were being admitted, even as a “joke.” It’s just too stupid. According to my Yale sources, it is common for fraternity parties to get full, after which nobody is admitted unless somebody leaves, or if one of the brothers comes out to escort in a specific person that he knows. So it could easily happen that a white girl is escorted into the party past a black girl who is waiting in line. There may be some institutional racism that leads to that, but that’s not the claim here.
I’m also anti-frat at Yale. My reason is the social life of the school has revolved around the res college system and that’s important. I did see two valid reasons for their revival: a need for off campus housing that is safe and the more awful existence of secret societies and their numerous “tombs” - buildings without windows - that dot campus. I think they should ban Skull & Bones, Wolf’s Head, etc.