@mom2and Blackwood did graduate from college. Like many students he finished online.
Yes, but do most vals from suburban high schools finish online many years after HS graduation? The comparision is not Blackwood to many students, it is Blackwood to other top of the class students from better circumstances. That is the point, not that he finished, but how he had to do it - nights and weekends while working a full time job and raising a family vs four years of residential college.
The article does not say that hard work is not important, just that the impediments to success are high for very smart, poor kids. There is much data to show that smart kids in low performing schools are not being identified and supported.
Everyone is NOT dealing with something with the same level of significance. Of course there are hardships that are not economic and can hit kids from every class. Does that take away from the fact that the data show that vals from inner city schools in Boston have a rougher path than their suburban counterparts?
@TomSrOfBoston I respectfully disagree. The point of the series is much deeper than that. First, BPS does not follow MassCore. By default many of their students are finishing with less years of English, Math, etc. than students from other districts, including those that serve low SES students. Second, Boston piles resources into the exam schools and provides much fewer resources to other HS. Third, there is a âpathâ to the exam schools and from the moment many students enter BPS they are off that track simply based upon their zip code. My friends in JP and Roslindale and Dorchester all know how to prep for the exam and that the prep starts in 3rd grade. Remember: Boston Latin had an outreach program to schools serving under represented minorities that ceased when he retired.
To others: the inclusion of Blackwood wasnât supposed to be negative. It was a story of how he had dreams for himself but without the right supports he fell through the cracks and his dream shifted. He clearly has has the drive and resilience needed to succeed. Think if he had the type of support that we offer our own kids here when he was struggling at BC; he may have been able to achieve the dream he had for himself.
Iâd suggest everyone try reading the entire series in the order it was published. The context may reduce confusion.
If you cannot expect the same college preparedness and career trajectory based on the class ranking in high school, can you expect the same based on standardized tests? Say you have some poor city kids with a 1400 SAT vs rich suburban kids with the same 1400 SAT, would the outcomes be more comparable? That would be a more fascinating study I think.
Iâve read The Globe article and it focuses attention on the fact that graduation from most public high schools in Boston, even as valedictorian, does not offer the preparation necessary to succeed in selective colleges (other than their 3 exam schools). I donât think this is a secret anywhere in the US; public urban schools face so many challenges that their graduates face long odds toward success. That being said, The Globe loves to play up the disadvantaged minorities v. âprivilegedâ whites/asians angle, which is increasingly the stock in trade of most liberal media outlets. In the major city near me, Hartford, the superintendent walks the neighborhoods reminding people of the first day of school, and then the schools hold a festival-like school kickoff to entice students to come to school. Still, parents interviewed will protest âWe just got back fromâŠ(fill in the blank)â as a reason they donât send their kids back to school. Urban schools canât make up for poor parenting, chaotic families and dysfunctional communities; elite schools are not doing students from these backgrounds any favors in admitting them when they are so ill equipped for the challenges they offer. This is a compelling reason for colleges to require SAT/ACT scores so they can see that a kid with a 4.5 and a 900 SAT from an urban high school probably isnât ready for the Ivy League, but would be better served at a community college/state directional/less competitive private.
âyou are then saying that those factors matter more than working hard and figuring it out.â
What if this turns out to be statistically true? What if the numbers say that 70% of the variation in outcomes is attributable to accidents of birth and 30% is working hard/talent/etc.?
NYC is also struggling with exam high schools vs. non-exam high schools. At one point the mayor was going to change the cutoff scores for the exam to allow more non-Asian minorities to attend. It was not well received. The problem is that the necessary resources for students to compete in these select High Schools is not available at their neighborhood public elementary and middle schools. You need to start early and have the resources to make all students get a quality education at all neighborhood public schools.
Great question hanna, (if the numbers exist). Moreover, then the authors should lead with the numbers and use their anecdotes are real live examples of those numbers.
More funding and resources for Bostonâs non-exam high schools would help but it is not a magic cure. The rules of what can and cannot be done in the public system will still result in most of the failures that these articles describe.
This is Cristo Rey High School in the Dorchester neighborhood of Boston:
https://www.cristoreyboston.org/
It is part of the nationwide network of Cristo Rey high schools. It is a private, Catholic school that is exclusively for low income students. To attend requires parental initiative and involvement. That unfortunately eliminates many students. Tuition is largely subsidized through a work study program.
https://www.cristoreyboston.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=308283&type=d&pREC_ID=713666
https://www.cristoreyboston.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=308273&type=d&pREC_ID=1064681
The school has a 100% college placement record including a few top schools but mostly not.
https://www.cristoreyboston.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=308281&type=d&pREC_ID=713661
It would be interesting if the Globe were to look into the trajectory of these graduates. Is their success rate better than the public valedictorians?
Looking at the actual numbers, there is âstickinessâ regardless of income quintile. Roughly 70% stay +/- 1 from the starting income quintile. Roughly 1 quarter move up exactly 1 quintile income from their starting point, and roughly 1 quarter move down exactly 1 quintile from their starting point, as summarized below.
Top Quintile â 63% stay +/-1 quintile from starting point
Fourth Quintile â 71% stay +/-1 quintile from starting point
Middle Quintile â 67% stay +/-1 quintile from starting point
Second Quintile â 67% stay +/-1 quintile from starting point
Bottom Quintile â 70% stay +/-1 quintile from starting point
Top Quintile â 23% move down 1 qunitile income
Fourth Quintile â 23% move down 1 qunitile income
Middle Quintile â 20% move down 1 qunitile income
Second Quintile â 25% move down 1 qunitile income
Bottom Quintile â 27% move up 1 qunitile income
Second Quintile â 18% move up 1 qunitile income
Middle Quintile â 24% move up 1 qunitile income
Fourth Quintile â 24% move up 1 qunitile income
Low income students who attend elite HYPSM⊠type colleges tend to fair much better than the average stats above, but there is still little economic mobility because the student body is primarily wealthy kids who are already in the top quintile. High achieving lower income kids rarely apply. For example, stats from the NYT study are below.
Harvard â 11% of student body moves up 2+ quintiles, 2% of student body moves from bottom quintile to top, 58% of the few in bottom quintile move to top
Yale-- 10% of student body moves up 2+ quintiles, 2% of student body moves from bottom quintile to top, 57% of the few in bottom quintile move to top
Princeton â 9% of student body moves up 2+ quintiles, 1% of student body moves from bottom quintile to top, 66% of the few in bottom quintile move to top
@kiddie I think over 40% students at Stuyvesant qualify for free or reduced-price lunch. As far as I know (I donât live in NYC but have friends there) many poor Asian students study a lot for the entrance exams, and there is free help available. I guess a kid might do well with either very good schools or very motivated parents, or both for the lucky ones, but if you have neither your chances are not great.
@Hanna Aha, well if itâs statistically true, that would likely mean that some factors mean more than others. We know thatâs true. But it doesnât negate that many change the game by working hard/talent/etc. Many people on CC keep singing the song that those born in poverty wonât get out and thatâs just not true. The narrative that the âbirth lotteryâ is true, doesnât accommodate for most of the people who do so much. Thereâs a reason for the Horatio Alger story, it pulls many people up by saying they can, not by stating they were born into a certain place and will end up there.
Few of us are born with a silver spoon that never bends. Many face a lot during their lives. Taking away their free will and efforts and saying that they were âluckyâ represents that type of thinking. My kids had a teacher who set up a game to demonstrate âbirth lotteryâ it was absolutely disgusting ( especially since she grew up in a leafy suburb).
Though Iâd bring in the fact that statistically American expectations have changed a lot over the years. It used to be enough to have a house, car and money to feed your family. The expectations now are vastly different. Not all of this is good, as many people work just to have more stuff rather than figuring out lives that are worthwhile. So being able to measure success along the continuum and not just based on a college degree is important.
Statistics are malleable and always have been. So, while Iâd totally agree that if you are born poor youâll have to work harder, Iâd never take away someoneâs dream of what their life can be so I can sell a cheap narrative based on a birth lottery. If you tell a kid he can be an astronaut he will be, tell the same kid heâs poor and itâs going to be next to impossible due to his birth lottery and see how far he gets. We need more inspiration out there.
The Globe is just so annoying. I am a subscriber and local and have been having this reaction for a few years. This article has the same target audience as all those home design magazines the Globe puts out. The viewpoint of this series is âfrom aboveâ so to speak.
@Happytimes2001 Just telling a poor kid he can be an astronaut doesnât mean he can. Come on know. Intelligence, which is largely determined at birth, is going to determine whether that is even possible. The people who actually make it out of poverty are way too focused on the really smart kids or above average intelligence kids like themselves. Hard work just isnât enough. It never has been.
I wish people would learn to see beyond their own extremely limited experience and realize that no matter how bad they think they had it, many have it far worse and just donât have the same opportunities to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. I donât care if your entire family made it out of poverty. Extrapolating that because 5 people or even 30 people you know made it out of poverty, tens of millions can, is unsupportable and just plain silly on even a very basic statistical level.
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Happytimes - yes, some get out - the exception, not the norm. The birth lottery is real. Regardless of how those of us not living in poverty think we are raising kids to be resilient, work hard, etc etc it is not anything like growing up poor. And obviously life hardships befall people across all walks of life, regardless of weslth, race, religion etc. Tjis doesnât negate the very real, very validated impact poverty has on families. And the laundry comparisons so many on CC use just illustrates how out of touch these threads can be - it takes 5 minutes to learn how to do laundry.
Maybe that is it @compmom as reading just this article it did not come across that way to me. If the Globe is publishing lots of stories that fit this narrative, maybe it is because nobody is really paying attention and nothing is changing. OTOH, if the stories (and I disagree that this one is looking down on Blackwood) seem to be looking down on those that choose a path other than college, that is one thing. If they are doing stories on those that have the ability to pursue a college degree but canât because of being born poor, that, to me, is a story that continues to need to be told. Yes, hard work is important, but it is not always enough.
Blackwood finished college, is working in the military, and supporting a family. A story about resilience might be better.
What if motivation, the ability to work hard, âtalent,â etc. are also primarily âaccidents of birthâ?
When I was a poor kid working hard, trying to learn, get ahead, etc. I used to get frustrated at hearing everyone in my extended family and neighborhood basically attribute success to âgifts from God.â
Now, decades later, Iâve come to realize that their general point is almost certainly right. We do not have the control over our destinies that we think we do.
âBlackwood finished college, is working in the military, and supporting a family.â Iâd be interested to hear what his future plans are. With his college degree, is he investigating becoming an officer and moving back to a medical field in the military ?
Hmmmm⊠heâd have to go to OCS first. Not sure if he can transition to a medical field without any medical training.