Ugh, we have a crazy old neighbor. At least now he’s SO old (87) that he doesn’t cause problems as often.
87 is so old? I will be looking at it not too far in the future.
ML–My dad is 96. Your “crazy old neighbor” could be around awhile.Maybe he doesn’t cause problems as often because he’s softened.
In the meantime, should you consider removing the stake that he placed on your property?
A few years ago we discovered that our lot was smaller in acreage than had been advertised forever, according to the ancient survey. This was a matter of going back to the late 19th century and divisions of the land among family members.
Not offering advice one way or another, just urging you to think very carefully before removing any stakes, even if you believe them to be on your property. That action could have some unintended consequences, including greatly increasing the hostility level and/or if you’re found to be wrong - making you appear to be the problem. I wouldn’t move any stakes without first talking to a land use attorney.
I am not planning on touching any stakes. I am not sure if it was placed by neighbor or his surveyor. We are rarely at the house. He is always there except in the winter when he heads to FL, so I don’t want to do anything to antagonize or provoke him. This is a rural area, no security systems or alarms, no neighbors with a good view of my house, etc.
If it’s recorded on the county plat there is nothing to discuss. That’s the boundary that was recorded period. You do not need to do a thing as far as I know. We have a dispute in our neighborhood right now. We have a community pier that never got permitted or put on the community plat filed with the county. Laws state community pier or private piers not both. Some of my neighbors want us all to pitch and rebuild this thing no one has ever used. So we hired an attorney after essentially being bullied and it was money well spent. It only gets costly if it escalates to a lawsuit. A few hours of research may be all you need to pay for to end this quickly. I wouldn’t seek legal guidance from a realtor.
Because the earth is not flat and because weather changes things over 100s of years. many metes and bounds descriptions are no longer accurate. That’s why they put in stakes, but those shifts and aren’t always accurate either.
If there aren’t any filed disputes, the title company will cover the legal description as written/filed. Some states would say the stake is notice that something has changes, other states do not care about notice, only about filings. I’m assuming this is an east coast property. Most land west of the Mississippi is Lot and Block, and other than putting up a fence, most disputes of a few feet here or there are usually handled by a land commission through hearings.
We had a developer out here who screwed up a plat and basically all the homes were built a half lot off, so the houses straddled the lot lines, the driveways were on the wrong lot, etc. They had to go back and replat (which is very very difficult and would have required the plat be signed by every homeowner and every lien holder (the banks, the utilities, creditors, divorced people, etc). Nightmare.
@Igloo said:
Yes, it is. Doesn’t mean you can’t be young at heart or still living life with gusto, but yeah, 87 is elderly.
OK, I"m ignorant, I guess. What’s a plat?
When a town or development is planned, a map is created showing all the lots. That’s a plat map. This is generally on file at the county courthouse.
I believe each lot is a plat .
@Tyberius My best advice is try to sell it in the winter when the neighbor is gone.
A plat is a map of a certain amount of property and how it is divided when it is officially divided. If a developer is going to build on or sell off lots, say of a 40 acres, a city or town or country will require a blueprint of the area and how it is going to be divided up. Some towns require at least a 1 acre lot, but some allow much smaller parcels, or multi-family. When the developer goes to sell the property, the deed will read “Lot 12 of the Brown plat, filed in the town of Springfield on Sept 1, 1950” The plat itself will have the legal description and then divide it into lots, parks, green space.
Most cities now require a developer to plat out the parcel, allow easements for all the utilities and roads, maybe include a parcel deeded to the school system for a school (or even to build the school) etc. Once it is filed, the lot can just be referred to as Lot 12 rather than the legal descriptions of “106 feet SW from the stake driven at the SW corner of the 30ft N, 60ft W of the 30’49degrees 37 minutes …” I’ve seen them refer to rocks or trees or intersections as reference points. Lot and block are a lot easier and more permanent!
Contact local real estate attorney, and meet with your stamped by surveyor official survey. Lawyer will likely confirm survey as legal substantiation of property boundaries. Lawyer may recommend sending neighbor letter confirming survey and warning neighbor to “desist” interfering with sale. Lawyer will also tell you realtor won’t always give best advice.
Please, please hire a lawyer and get this resolved before you sell your property. Around 17 years ago we bought a house that the seller didn’t disclose a property dispute on, and it negatively affected our first years there, in which our next door neighbor started our relationship with antagonism about the property line (very nice neighbors otherwise). I’m still resentful about the sellers, even though we don’t even live in that house anymore.
Wow, glad that’s not the case here. We’ve owned and/or developed properties in many cities in our area, and we have never been required to deed land (or even build a school, good God) to the school districts. Schools are expected to pay market rate for any land they purchase (and we have sold to school districts) , and they and they alone are required to build the schools, which can run into many millions.
For some reason the idea of deeding a lot for a school instantly made me think of Laura Ingalls Wilder.
BTW, if the neighbor put a stake in the ground, I would remove it immediately. No sense letting it look like you agreed to have the property line marked with a stake based on the neighbor’s random placement of a stake.
If the neighborhood is old the original survey may contain markers like the [now dead] oak tree or the [moved/removed] stone wall. I live in New England in a neighborhood with 18th and 19th century houses. Two of my neighbors had a lengthy dispute over their lot line. The problem was that some of the metal markers were no longer in place and measuring from the one side of the properties resulted in a different lot line the measuring from the other side. It was only a difference of a foot or two but it affected whether a portion of one neighbor’s driveway was on the other’s property.
@Tyberius, one thing I would make sure to do is to maintain and use that piece of property. Mow it if it’s grass, prune if it’s trees or shrubs. Take pictures of yourselves doing activity on the property. That will protect you from a claim of adverse possession, in which someone who is not the legal owner but has been assumed to be and has used it as their own over a long period is able to take legal possession, Also make sure you’re paying taxes for the disputed piece, as in many states paying taxes is an element of claiming adverse possession.
Read a little of this the other day but haven’t scrutinized every post since. If this is a repeat, consider you’re 2/3’s of the way to “anything three people tell me must be true”, along with looking for a salt shaker.
That your neighbor drove a stake means nothing. That he told someone that he did means exactly the same.
There’s adverse possession (putting up a fence without challenge for a set time period, which varies by state or locality), and use (letting someone use part of your property for a driveway, for instance. Once again, for a statutory time period). The stake is irrelevant.
Find the plat or survey. Along with that, find the same for your neighbor"s property. They’re usually at the tax office. Even if some boundary marker has disappeared, there’ll likely be enough information to squash whatever claim they’ve made to a piece of your property.