Boys vs Girls in College

Parent Cafe
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<p>As the parent of a D who is mathematically gifted but dropped math many times for social reasons, I can tell you that there are all sorts of societal reasons girls in the aggregate don’t do as well at math as boys. </p>

<p>When my own mathematically talented D was three, I found out that she never touched the blocks in nursery school. I was stunned. So, I asked her why. At first, she lied. She said she didn’t like blocks. I said that wasn’t true–she played with blocks all the time at home. Then she said "I want to play with the other girls. They don’t want to play with blocks, so I don’t. " She was THREE!!!</p>

<p>In kindergarten, there was another little girl who liked blocks too. So, they made a deal. At a certain time one day, they went into the block corner together. The boys started in on them, but there were two of them. So, the boys said things about “cooties” and left. After about an hour or so, the girls left the area, and the boys surged back in. The next day, at exactly the same time, the 2 girls went back in. The boys came out. Every day, they did it. On the 4th or 5th day, another girl joined them. By the end of the year, all the girls played blocks and the boys knew that hour was the girls’ time. </p>

<p>It was interesting that the girls played differently with the blocks. While the boys tended to co-operate to build the highest possible structures, the girls built things horizontally. Their very favorite thing was creating a really complicated maze and letting the classroom gerbil run through it, trying to figure it out. That intrigued a few of the boys, who braved social ostracism to contribute.</p>

<p>This is an absolutely true story…and I assure you that the girls in that kindergarten class were unusually good at math throughout elementary school. But if my own D hadn’t found out that other little girl liked to play blocks too, she never would have braved the boys alone. </p>

<p>I’m not claiming that girls in the aggregate are as good at math as boys in the aggregate–they aren’t. But a lot of little girls who might be good at math are dissuaded from following their interest because they want to fit in socially. And math is one of those abilities that develops more if it’s fostered at a very young age. Even by age 3 or 4, little kids tend to segregate by sex when playing and most will do what the majority of the same sex want to do. It’s hard to buck the trend…and IMO, we ought to give kids more help doing it.</p>

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<p>“Girls time”</p>

<p>And there you have it, in two words, why I sent my daughter to an all-girls school for high school. So it could ALWAYS be “girls time.”</p>

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<p>Razorsharp hit this nail on the head. Boys excel when there competition is involved. The pussifcation of boys at the little league level and yute soccer where they do not keep score should not be tolerated. Nuturing and touchy feely stuff is for girls. Guys need cut and dry things and serious competition. This is true even in adult leisure activities. Me and my buddies for example play video games where there is a distinct winner. Fantasy sports also is played and there is cutthroat competition and a clear distinct winner. My girlfriend will do things like religious retreats and have OC night, events which have no winner. This is why males are winners and women only make 80 cents on the dollar.</p>

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<p>Another factor for girls is also social. When they reach junior high and are interested in boys, it is no longer cool to at the top of the class and ‘beat’ the boys. My D went through this in 7th grade. In 8th grade, she was back with a favorite male teacher that pushed her to excel.</p>

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<p>Totally off topic, though it concerns human evolution, specifically, of the male species.</p>

<p>For the last ten years, the male homo sapiens has developed a new appendage upon reaching puberty. It consists of two globs sticking out from the ears. The two globs are attached to long strings which merge together into a single string that disappears into a trouser pocket. It is too early to know whether this is a permanent modification of the human male, or a temporary excrescence that will disappear when the age of reason (25? 30?) is reached. it does not seem to interfere with the ability to hear that dinner is served but calls to do chores do not appear to reach the appropriate area of the brain.</p>

<p>This is a scientific theory, based on a sample of 2. It is subject to falsification.</p>

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<p>JoeV, it depends on how you define “winners.” Taken to an extreme, your outlook produces George Steinbrenner and Donald Trump, which define “Losers” with a capital “L.”</p>

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<p>marite, I don’t think that is exclusive to the male. In fact, I find it, on my antrhopological observations, to be more common among the female homo sapien.</p>

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<p>Oh well, my sample was obviously skewed! :)</p>

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<p>

Actually it depends on how you define the competition. If the competition is making money, then both The Donald and George Steinbrenner are well ahead of TheDad (and most everyone else in the board, probably.)</p>

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<p>Exactly the point, RS. They’re losers. What profit a man if he gaineth his profits and he’s a schmuck?</p>

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<p>From observations of my son and his friends over the years, I think there are three primary reasons why boys often do not achieve academically as well as their potential might indicate: (in general) they do not communicate as effectively so they can’t ask for help; they do not express their emotions as freely so they don’t work through their problems; and they do not have as strong a work ethic as girls seem to have.</p>

<p>Add to this the siren lure of video/computer games, and the path to academic excellence narrows. One has to: help them recognize and deal with their fears and insecurities; give regular massages to the work ethic for 12 years; and pry them off the technology.</p>

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<p>I don’t buy for one moment the assertion that males are being short-changed in education. Heck, for centuries, education was judged to be purly the domain of white males of a certain economic and social status. Women of the same class were given just enough education to service them in marriage to these men. Cerainly, it was widely considered a waste of time to send a woman to college. “Finishing school” was the height of academic sophistication for girls, no matter how rich their families might be.</p>

<p>Never has education been more “flexable” in addressing the needs of individual learners than it is today. In decades past (our parents’ generation and earlier), education was administered under very strict rules and total attention and concentration was usually demanded of every student, males included. And for the most part, boys DID sat still in their seats and memorize mind-numbingly dull passages of prose and poetry, learn dates and historical eras, periodic tables and mathmatical ones, formulas, both scientific and algebraic and practice penmanship that would boggle the imaginations of today’s student. Teachers had total control of their classrooms and, by and large, practiced a “one size fits all” approach to education. Boys have it easier in classrooms today than at any time in history. Yet here again is another tedious thread lamenting the plight of “poor misunderstood boys”. How terribly unfair it is that they have such a hard row to hoe. Girls have it so good. Blacks too. What’s a poor white male (an endangered species, if there ever was one!) to do?</p>

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<p>I’m with poetsheart. </p>

<p>This topic has come up too frequently on CC. One of the major reasons that males are attending college less than females is that they do not need a college degree to earn a decent living. There are many opportunities available from the military to construction to long haul driving to computer development that are generally not available to women. Females need the degree to find a decent job.</p>

<p>A lot of this discussion is political, supported by rightwingers and anti-feminists.</p>

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<p>There are some eternal threads on CC, and this is one of them. Another is that somehow Asian-Americans are being screwed by colleges.</p>

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<p>I’m the mother of two boys, but I’m with poetsheart on this.<br>
We need to take into account that universal education is a relatively new phenomenon, especially past the early grades. In the old days, the majority of boys would work in the fields (hence the 3-month long summer vacation) or go into mines or factories. Those who went to school were in the minority and were educated along the lines described by poetsheart. Those who could not tolerate the sit-still and memorize style of teaching would drop out of school and join the manual labor force. As more boys have spent longer time in school, both in high school and college, schools have gone a long way to accommodate them.</p>

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<p>I’m with tsdad on this.<br>
I belong to a generation where going to college for anything than a MS. degree was considered odd. When my husband got his Ph.D. I, as a mere wife (though also a grad student), was not allowed to walk in front of Harvard statue, though any male, whether or not receiving a degree on that day, was not so restricted. Eventually, I, too, got my Ph.D. and was allowed to walk in front, rather than creep behind University Hall lest I pollute this hallowed symbol of male dominance. Whew! What an achievement!</p>

<p>To the extent that women now make up 50 % of the undergraduates at Harvard and elsewhere, it is because the world has finally caught up to the fact that women make up 50, not 10 or 15% of the population. Women, in other words, have achieved parity, not dominance. I don’t have any quarrel with that, nor do my Ss. It’s strange to see the discourse of victimization spreading to debates on men and masculinity. when others have long moved on to agency.</p>

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<p>My sons could go out into the business world without college degrees and make their way to upper middle class careers. They have that much charm, savvy and male privilege. Their secondary educations were that good.</p>

<p>However, they would be so much poorer in spirit and intellect without the university experience–through a masters at least.</p>

<p>Americans are caught up in an unbelieveable circle of consumerism. I never realized how bad it was until I lived in another country for four years. My boys are tempted by it, particularily the one in the US. They want to set themselves up for lives filled with wealth. Like many American boys, they have had a long obsession with Bill Gates. I once banned Bill gates as a dinner table topic.</p>

<p>“Don’t chase money” is my repeated advice since my experience is that money is not that hard to make if you are very good at what you do. Some of my advice is getting through. S1 announced that he’d like to minor in Philosophy.</p>

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<p>It’s probably because she teaches boring subjects like literature and writing.</p>

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<p>What is the “male privelage” you speak of, cheers?</p>

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<p>Poetsheart nailed it. Well said.</p>

<p>By the way, one can be a right-winger and not anti-woman. Just throwing that out there. :slight_smile: I’m all for the meritocracy - seems as if men arne’t faring as well as women under it. :p</p>