<p>^Completely agree. You cannot rank the quality of education an institution provides using any available data, and anyone who places ANY credence in rankings is very foolish indeed. </p>
<p>Even more foolish is someone who thinks they can predict on the basis of rankings how well a school will serve the needs of a particular student. As polarscribe points out, even schools with mediocre rankings produce very successful graduates.</p>
<p>The only things rankings reflect is prestige. And the rankings are based on prestige. Anybody see any fundamental problem with that?</p>
<p>I think the attitude described here is pretty snotty. While we’re all sniffing at going from 183 to 170, doesn’t a journey of a thousand miles begin with a single step (or 13 steps) and all that? It probably took a lot of hard work for that school to start increasing its rank - it doesn’t have the pick of the litter when it comes to profs, students or money. Why shouldn’t the administrators of that school celebrate their successes? SIU wasn’t going to go from 183 to 35 in one fell swoop or anything … It’s going to be an upward journey.</p>
<p>The attitude that it is “celebrating mediocrity” is like not being proud of your C student for finally getting that B minus. Frankly, annasdad, I’m kind of surprised, since you’re not one of the snotty Ivy-or-bust posters!</p>
<p>I didn’t take the OP as being snotty so much as pointing out the irony of the press release. And I agree. My alma mater consistently boasts of its USNWR #1 ranking* with the * at the bottom of the page in very small letters indicating that it’s for best value in midwest undergraduate colleges. I find it a ridiculous selling point for a fine school, but they’re proud of the ranking. And that’s OK.</p>
<p>“Of course, they could simply ignore it on the basis that the rankings are meaningless … which they undoubtedly are.”</p>
<p>the difference between #170 and #10 are meaningless? Now you’re being silly. </p>
<p>Unless you think there is no generalized (across majors) prestige/selectivity/rigour factor, which I think is itself a silly position, for the most part, then I think its hard to argue that SIUC isnt lower on that factor than, say, Johns Hopkins. The agonizing about differences of a one or places in the ranking is clearly very silly. Whether a difference of 10 or 15 measures anything meaningful, is debatable, IMO.</p>
<p>"My alma mater consistently boasts of its USNWR #1 ranking* with the * at the bottom of the page in very small letters indicating that it’s for best value in midwest undergraduate colleges. I find it a ridiculous selling point for a fine school, but they’re proud of the ranking. And that’s OK. "</p>
<p>duh. thats marketing. You look for what sets you apart, and you hype that.</p>
<p>Folks who are good at that make more money than physics teachers. For what its worth.</p>
<p>“The only things rankings reflect is prestige. And the rankings are based on prestige. Anybody see any fundamental problem with that?”</p>
<p>the only thing sillier than the USNWR obsessed, are those who are obsessed the other way. USNWR rankings are based on several factors, the only one directly measuring prestige is Peer Assessment (whether that only measures prestige or not has been debated here, and please lets not start that again). USNWR in theory is trying to measure an X factor - generalized prestige/selectivity/rigour. For some students thats important. For most its only one factor among others. For some it matters not at all. Its up to each student and family to determine A. How much it matters and B. If USNWR is a reasonble guide (vs info from peers, GC’s, naviance, Fiske and other guides, etc)</p>
<p>I agree…but unless a college opts out of providing data to magazines, they are indeed playing the rankings-are-important game. Sadly almost all of them do. It’s good for business and as someone who has seen what that does internally, its bad for education. I’m a big fan of goals and metrics, but when the metrics take on a life of their own, and you factor in the cost of the mostly superficial game playing, it’s a detriment to higher education. But that is for another thread.</p>
<p>That thought arrives nearly three decades too late. ;)</p>
<p>But the real shame is when students and parents start playing the rankings-are-important game. It doesn’t harm anyone when the colleges do it, it’s only when parents and students buy into it that people start making bad decisions. (My own daughter chose an 80-something-ranked LAC over a top 20. She has chosen… wisely.)</p>
<p>^^ I graduated from a SAME ranking college as SIUC almost 35 years ago…At that time, jobs were hard to find due to the recession and the oil crisis. However, our graduates had no problem to receive job offers from the “Big 8” accounting firm(now the big 4)against students from Rutgers, NYU or Columbia as long as you have a 3.5 gpa(the cut off)…</p>
<p>I graduated from a school that is regional school where the ranking is unpublished. Many recruiters were there for the business school. I received an excellent education in business and accounting and have been happy in my career path. The rabid reliance on rankings today is unhealthy. It is merely one more data point when trying to decide where to attend college. Eventual success (however you define success) depends on the individual, not the school.</p>
<p>The question is, is that journey the right one to be spending time, effort, and money pursuing? If the school is devoting its limited resources to increasing its rank instead of to things that really matter, then the hard work is wasted.</p>
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<p>In terms of prestige and selectivity, absolutely; because the rankings are based in large part on prestige and selectivity, of course the higher-ranked schools are going to be more prestigious and selective. But rigor? Is a school that almost no one flunks out of (e.g. Yale) more rigorous than one where over half the entering students do not graduate (eg SIUC)? I might argue that SIUC and its ilk do a better job of challenging its students to excel than do schools like Yale and its ilk. (Standing by for flames, let 'em rip!)</p>
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<p>Yes, it’s impossible to rank how colleges will affect the life of any individual student by any of those factors. (EDIT: or any other available data, for that matter!)</p>
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<p>Only if the values of the evaluator are very, very skewed.</p>
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<p>I would have absolutely no problem with the USNWR ranking if they promoted it as “America’s most prestigious colleges.” But when they hype the list as “America’s best colleges,” that’s misleading and utterly false.</p>
<p>^I could be wrong but I think Brooklynborndad was being facetious in response to my example of my son’s Harvard educated physics teacher who makes less money than I do and I was educated at one of those >#100 universities and didn’t work for 15 years.</p>
<p>Sorry if I left the wrong impression. Success can be measured in so many ways. My only point was that the prestige of your college doesn’t guarantee a darn thing - a job, a high salary, happiness, etc. All it guarantees is your college is more famous and harder to get into than mine.</p>
<p>I graduated from Directional State U in Louisiana - ranking was so low you’ll have to scrape it off the floor. It did not prevent me from landing an awesome job at the research labs of a Fortune 1 company working side by side with people from super elite schools.</p>
<p>That was then - this is now, and rankings are a lot more important for many companies mostly for recognition and recruitment…</p>
<p>I graduated from SIUC back in the stone ages. My dad taught at another state directional. My college choice was made like this:
Me: “I want to go away to school.”
Dad: “You can live at home and go to Directional U.”
Me: “I REALLY want the experience of living away from home.”
Dad: “If you get a scholarship to make the cost even out, you might be able to go away. I think you might like SIUC’s campus. It has a large, pretty campus, and there is a lake in the middle of the campus. If you get a scholarship you can go there.”</p>
<p>So I went to SIUC, not even knowing it was considered a “party” school. I was in the honors program, loved my time there, received a terrific education, and was able to go on for additional degrees in my field because I was well-prepared.</p>
<p>I wonder what it would have been like if my dad and I knew about rankings back then. I hope I would have chosen the same school but I guess I’ll never know.</p>