<p>Christopher Dolan is known for civil rights and medical malpractice cases. Both areas will come into play here and he is very good at getting publicity.</p>
<p>And publicity does seem to be an overriding goal of this family, which makes me question their motivation.</p>
<p>^I don’t think that’s fair. The “overriding goal” of the family is to see their daughter come out of this alive. Yes, it is a media circus but I am sure they would prefer to not be in this position at all. If you read post #348 from jym, you can see how uncomfortable the mother is with all of it.</p>
<p>
Good grief, since when is “dead” a matter of personal belief? When my relatives die can I just leave their bodies lying about the house and claim that I don’t believe they’re actually dead? Sounds like the plot from “Psycho”.</p>
<p>The family thinks that publicity will lead to their being able to put their daughter in a skilled nursing facility, which is what they want. I don’t fault them for that. They are deluded in believing that their daughter has any chance of any recovery, but given that belief, they’re acting reasonably in trying to use public pressure to get their result.</p>
<p>Their coterie of advisors should be giving them better advice.</p>
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</p>
<p>Actually, it really is cut and dried. She has been declared legally dead, both by numerous doctors and the court itself. This scenario plays out every single day in hospitals. Rarely is it ever taken to the court once a declaration of brain death is made and confirmed by second opinions. And in nearly every other instance where a court is presented with clear evidence of brain death, the order is given that the hospitals can withdraw mechanical support, which they then do. That the court has declared the child dead but continues to compel treatment is what is truly beyond the pale. I think initially it was through compassion to help the family accept. Now it seems to be solely to appease a very vocal family.</p>
<p>If the court continues to compel treatment, you can bet that the “the public” will be compelled to pay for it ultimately. And more people who believe that a body with absolutely no consciousness whatsoever and no hope of every having even a spec of consciousness again will insist that their loved one is also alive and deserves to be kept on mechanical support with 24/7 nursing care, also paid for with public funds.</p>
<p>There is a very good reason that uneducated family members or people with magical thinking are not given credence for being able to define life. It is also not an arbitrary decision for the doctors either. There are numerous tests which must be “failed” in order to be declared brain dead, and the patient must fail all of them.</p>
<p>This is the equivalent of saying someone without a head is alive because they are breathing (no, they aren’t, the machine is pumping oxygen into their lungs) and their heart is beating (which is the most basic of all body functions in terms of what it requires to continue to do so). </p>
<p>This definition of “life” propagated by the pro “lifers” mentioned earlier is just incredibly creepy.</p>
<p>No Jym, I mean the doctor from New York. Being from New York, I actual,y do know it isn’t Ohio. I has thought his presence was a nationally known part of this story, but it may be local. I will find coverage. Please stand by . . .</p>
<p>Nrdsb4, the court isn’t compelling treatment. It is staying removal of the ventilator. In the legal sense that isn’t the same thing. Also, your equivalencies don’t hold water in court. The judge has to decide based on the statutes and what is before him. I still believe that next week will bring this to an end and all that will have happened is that all of the processes have been followed.</p>
<p>This is the doctor, also an impressive biography.</p>
<p>[International</a> Brain Research Foundation, Inc.](<a href=“http://www.ibrfinc.org/bio_jonathan_fellus.htm]International”>http://www.ibrfinc.org/bio_jonathan_fellus.htm)</p>
<p>I find this disturbing, but your opinion is up to you.
[New</a> York doctors urge ?hope? for ?brain-dead? Jahi McMath - NY Daily News](<a href=“National News - New York Daily News”>New York doctors urge ‘hope’ for ‘brain-dead’ Jahi McMath )</p>
<p>Why are they calling this a coma?</p>
<p>Maybe there is a doctor who would have to take responsibility should she be transfixed to Medford. Am aware you are in NY, Zoos, but haven’t seem any mention of a NY dr so your news must be local. </p>
<p>The courts have thus far not compelled the CA drs to insert the trach. But that would be required for transfer. </p>
<p>At some point over the long weekend I
Am hoping someone will sit this grieving family down and help them realize that to a certain extent this has gotten bigger than it needs to be and the intrusion of so many outsiders must be horrific. I hope they come to peace with the situation and make the best decision for their child and allow her to rest in peace.</p>
<p>That is disturbing. They are exploiting this poor family and engendering false hope. It’s tragic.</p>
<p>I realized it must be local so I thought I would post so you could see what it was that I thought was disturbing. Sometimes we forget that there are other news markets than NYC!</p>
<p>I would hope that the family would make the decision and so it in a way that is meaningful to then, but I really think that the judge is going to say that he has ensured compliance with every statute, provided time for the family to seek other options, and now his work is done and the hospital will no longer be compelled to provide the ventilator. Like I said, I believe she is dead, but I also think it is right to make sure the legal process played out fully and fairly. But I feel the same way about capital punishment (which I do not support). There are valid reasons for making sure the legal process is above reproach.</p>
<p>What do you think about the federal judge stepping in a few hrs before the stay is up on Monday? I also am not surprised that article was in the Post. Would expect that or the daily news.</p>
<p>It most certainly is treatment. This is what is involved with caring for a brain dead patient on a ventilator:</p>
<p>A pulmonary MD follows the patient and prescribes parameters and protocols for the vent. A respiratory therapist and the nurse implement these orders. They suction the patient at intervals to keep secretions from blocking the tube. </p>
<p>Physical therapists do range of motion exercises at intervals to prevent contractures.</p>
<p>Nurses and their aides turn the patient at least q 2 hours to prevent bed sores. Expensive electronic beds aid in this endeavor. Internal med doctors order medications such as vasopressors to keep blood pressure up since the brain is not able to regulate this anymore. These require constant vigilance and adjustments to the rate by the nurse to maintain a blood pressure which will keep internal organs intact. The patient has a urinary catheter, which is monitored, emptied, and documented at intervals. IV fluids are given and managed by physicians and nurses. Labs are done daily and pulled by techs or nurses. Expensive cardiac monitoring is done at all times and documented by the nursing staff. Lacking a feeding tube, the patient is likely given TPN through a central line, which costs hundreds to thousands per bag and has its own protocol with regard to sterility and management of the central line. The patient is bathed in bed, hair washed, lotions applied, oral care done daily. Sheets changed with the patient in the bed, gowns changed, dignity given at all times. It is very very very intensive care.</p>
<p>I could go on and on. I’ve taken care of these patients, zoosermom, you have not. It’s far more than just not unplugging a vent. When you forbid the cessation of a vent, you are by definition mandating treatment.</p>
<p>Well, Jym, the article was in the Daily News, which is the left-wing tabloid, but that was just a representative sample of local coverage. Not surprising that a New York organization would get local coverage, but I still am bothered by what the doctor is saying, that, I think, is cruel.</p>
<p>I have no idea what the federal intervention means, except possibly that maybe there is something lurking in the background that we don’t know. Probably it doesn’t mean anything.</p>
<p>My heart really does break not only for the family but for the medical staff as well. </p>
<p>Taking care of a corpse has to be a little traumatizing.</p>
<p>“The restraining order expires at 5 p.m. Tuesday. At 1 p.m. the same day, a federal judge is expected to hear arguments about possible violations of Jahi’s civil rights, and the rights of families - not doctors, lawyers or politicians - to determine a loved one’s death, based on their religious or personal beliefs.”</p>
<p>The Federal case is the civil right’s portion.</p>
<p>Nrsdb4, you have absolutely no idea what I have done. None whatsoever, so please climb off your high horse. I didn’t say anything about the care involved. I repeated what the court ordered, which is a completely separate matter. The court compelled the hospital to refrain from discontinuing the ventilator. That is all I said and it is true. I happen to agree with you that this care is a grotesque waste of resources, but I don’t think it will continue indefinitely, which is why I am less bothered</p>
<p>The idea of a family’s religion/beliefs being used to determine legal death is really a scary idea IMO.</p>