<p>Count me among the legally ignorant. To me, if California law says this:</p>
<p>CALIFORNIA CODES HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 7180</p>
<ol>
<li><p>(a) An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards. (b) This article shall be applied and construed to effectuate its general purpose to make uniform the law with respect to the subject of this article among states enacting it. (c) This article may be cited as the Uniform Determination of Death Act.</p></li>
<li><p>When an individual is pronounced dead by determining that the individual has sustained an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, there shall be independent confirmation by another physician.</p></li>
<li><p>When a part of the donor is used for direct transplantation pursuant to the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 7150)) and the death of the donor is determined by determining that the individual has suffered an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, there shall be an independent confirmation of the death by another physician. Neither the physician making the determination of death under Section 7155.5 nor the physician making the independent confirmation shall participate in the procedures for removing or transplanting a part.</p></li>
<li><p>Complete patient medical records required of a health facility pursuant to regulations adopted by the department in accordance with Section 1275 shall be kept, maintained, and preserved with respect to the requirements of this chapter when an individual is pronounced dead by determining that the individual has sustained an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>And it does- then I don’t understand how there was ever any legal dispute whatsoever.</p>
<p>She is being given antibiotics… to kill off all gut bacteria, which could delay decomposition just a bit but not stop it. They might as well start pumping formaldehyde… What a sad, sad case! I really hope the poor child could find peace soon and will be laid to rest instead of being turned into a mummy.</p>
<p>I’m fascinated by the recurring theme that she will not be at peace until her body is surrendered. Yet, in the same conversation, we clamor for a bright line scientific standard to be applied to determine death. These things seem contradictory to me. Is the wish that she be given peace or find peace simply a figure of speech or do people really believe that there is some part of her in limbo and not at peace?</p>
<p>cartera, it is just a figure of speech - a wish for this whole spectacle to end, so he poor mom (and possibly dad) could have their closure. A dead person is dead, and no matter what happens around her is not going to affect her or disturb her… so yes, she is at peace. Given how this whole case has been unraveling, it would not be surprising that her body could get embalmed or preserved in some way and would end up being hooked up to machines for a long, long time.</p>
<p>Perhaps there’s a contradiction, but I believe both that death is final and that desecration of a corpse is a terrible wrong. We are dust and ashes, yet the body of a child is special dust and ashes. Few of us would want our families to see us decompose, never mind the whole news-watching public. I’m unsentimental enough to be plan to donate my whole body for med students to dissect, but to have my bowel sloughing at issue in a federal lawsuit is beyond even my sensibilities.</p>
<p>I’ve followed this whole thread but haven’t commented. When I started reading this I didn’t know the difference between brain dead and PVS. This has been very educational for me. I looked up images of the brain after brain death, I watched a video showing Lazarus reflex. It is a compelling and thought provoking subject and one that everyone should understand, IMO.</p>
<p>What I keep coming back to is the disrespect that this girl’s body is being subjected to. Her remains have become the center of a circus and her legacy is becoming nothing more than a carnival freak show for the public to gape at. </p>
<p>The more I read, the more convinced I am that the courts should never have allowed this to happen. This family should not have the right to do whatever it likes with the dead body of their daughter. </p>
<p>I am very fearful of the precedent that this is setting. As much as i sympathize with the loss that this mom has suffered, I cannot understand this level of denial going without decisive intervention from somebody, anybody who has the power to intervene.</p>
<p>One of the comments in one of the articles (and who knows their veracity) suggests that a man who was in PICU with his son that day observed the family - there were 15 of them there, clearly excessive, making a lot of commotion, and that the nurses were preoccupied with getting the other family members out so as not to disrupt other patients. It’s also alleged the grandmother suctioned in the throat, that Jahi was talking (which is a no no) and that the family was feeding her bites of a cheeseburger. I have no way of knowing if these things are true, of course.</p>
<p>I thought catera’s question was interesting. If someone believes this young girl’s soul is trapped in her body until her heart stops beating, I understand the concern. Perhaps her quality of life is being impacted. If the belief is that her soul is already gone (or there is no soul or afterlife) only her family’s quality of life is impacted by the situation. I don’t see how it negatively impacts the rest of us at all unless the public is required to pay for further hospital care or medical personnel are forced to participate in procedures they find unethical or distressing. It seems reasonable to object on those grounds, though I thought kluge had a really good point about possible misallocation of societal resources on medical care for the elderly. If the family is held financially responsible for her care from here on out, and no medical personnel are forced to participate, where is the damaging precedent? What are we worried about? </p>
<p>I think this girl has loving concerned parents doing what they think best for her. And maybe it is best. I don’t know. I am so glad it isn’t my decision.</p>
<p>“If the belief is that her soul is already gone (or there is no soul or afterlife) only her family’s quality of life is impacted by the situation. I don’t see how it negatively impacts the rest of us at all unless the public is required to pay for further hospital care or medical personnel are forced to participate in procedures they find unethical or distressing”</p>
<p>By the same token, then, it’s ok if we prop dead Uncle Bernie up at the kitchen table? What’s the difference? </p>
<p>Indeed, dead Uncle Bernie doesn’t require a doctor’s prescription to keep him going. A physician or other medical personnel HAS to be involved to obtain the potassium, parenteral nutrition, antibiotics, etc.</p>
<p>To me, the question is - if families (not doctors) “get to determine death” as Dolan wants, who says cardiac death is death? You still have living cells in your body for some time after cardiac death.</p>
<p>PG: if you want to prop Uncle Bernie up at the kitchen table it is okay with me. I don’t think it is any of my business. really. </p>
<p>I don’t think any doctor should be required to write a prescription in this case. </p>
<p>I haven’t suggested the hospital/doctors were incorrect in pronouncing death, or that they should change their procedures in pronouncing death. I am not smart enough to have an opinion about that and I don’t think it really matters in this case.</p>
<p>I am going to line up all my non breathing, no brain activity, no heart beat relatives in my “special visiting room” and have them collect social security for ever.</p>
<p>This has probably already been posted here but if so I missed it. It details the lengths to which CHO has gone to support this family, including “almost daily” counseling from social workers, a chaplain, and Child Life professionals, a room for the family to gather in, a place at the Family House, and relaxation of the visiting rules. They gave the family a full week of this support after Jahi was declared brain dead before telling the family it was time to remove mechanical support.</p>