<p>I dare say that more than a “very few” women have chosen to terminate 14-week pregnancies. Surely the number of women who would object to being hooked up to machines for weeks/months on end to maintain a 14 week pregnancy is larger than that.</p>
<p>It’s almost like some people don’t really believe women’s end of life wishes are to be taken seriously. That pg renders them helpless or incapable or needing special protection. It’s patronizing and insulting.</p>
<p>If there’s “no harm” because she’s dead, then certainly it’s no big deal if a man dies and the hospital, without his consent or next of kin consent, puts him on ventilation to harvest his liver or heart for a transplant. Right? I mean, he’s not bring harmed in any way, what’s the big deal.</p>
<p>I think it’s a little strange to say “VERY FEW” (would agree to pull the plug if pg). I think that’s your wishful thinking, but I bet there are a lot more women than you’d like who would say they wouldn’t want to be kept sustained just to maintain a pregnancy.</p>
<p>I think you’re misunderstanding.</p>
<p>If asked by their OB/GYN after pregnancy occurs, some may say that they don’t want their lives sustained…but I don’t think that question is asked, and I don’t think it’s something that is discussed while pregnant. Does your OB/Gyn H ask his patients that question? Do you think their partners do?</p>
<p>I’m saying that few pregnant women have actually voiced that because it’s not something that (before this issue) that women really think about when pregnant. </p>
<p>PG…are you saying that while you were pregant with your twins, you actively told your H, “hey, if something seriously happens to me during the next 9 months, pull the plug”. </p>
<p>I just don’t think many women say that during their pregnancies. </p>
<p>I don’t think it’s wishful thinking on my part. I’ve known many, many pregnant women throughout the years and no one has ever said that.</p>
<p>I dare say that more than a “very few” women have chosen to terminate 14-week pregnancies. </p>
<p>That’s not relevant to this situation. </p>
<p>Surely the number of women who would object to being hooked up to machines for weeks/months on end to maintain a 14 week pregnancy is larger than that.</p>
<p>Again, that may be so…but the number of women who have actually SAID THAT while pregnant, was probably small (before this issue). When women are pregnant with a desired/wanted pregnancy, they’re not saying, “Hey honey, if I go into a coma or something, I want an abortion or pull the plug on me.” </p>
<p>And, I doubt many of those posting here ever said that to their mates while pregnant.</p>
<p>Even the guy who helped right the freaking law says the hospital is wrong: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Marlise</a> Munoz: Family seeks to take pregnant brain-dead Texas woman off ventilator](<a href=“http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/marlise-munoz--family-seeks-to-take-pregnant-brain-dead-texas-woman-off-ventilator#ixzz2qRdgscgk]Marlise”>http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/marlise-munoz--family-seeks-to-take-pregnant-brain-dead-texas-woman-off-ventilator#ixzz2qRdgscgk)</p>
<p>I don’t think it is a situation where a “woman’s wishes” arent’ being respected. Unless someone puts these things in writing and really “spells it out,” I don’t think we can really know because what a person says off the top of their head or even after careful reflection may have been said w/o really thinking about all the ramifications.</p>
<p>This isn’t a perfect analogy, but we’ve had people here post and say, “well, I used to say that when my kid graduated from college, he was totally on his own. But, now that I see the actual situation, I see that I may need to help out a big til he’s truly on his feet.” </p>
<p>In some way, that applies here. The woman (like MANY of us), may have said, “I wouldn’t want to be kept alive on machines”…because she was only thinking about her own life. She may not have been thinking, “well, what if I was pregnant at the time.” </p>
<p>If she had a history of saying, “don’t keep me alive even if I’m pregnant,” then fine. But where is the evidence of that?</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, you persist in describing this dead woman as being “kept alive,” “alive on machines,” “on life support,” “in a coma or something.”</p>
<p>These terms are incorrect. This woman is not in a coma. She is dead. Her brain is decaying and rotting.</p>
<p>You’re right that most of us have never said that we would not want our bodies to be involved in a grotesque experiment where our corpse is pumped full of drugs and hooked up to a mechanical breathing apparatus after we are dead, in order to be a human incubator. Most people could not imagine that anyone would do such a thing, certainly not against the will of our nearest and dearest.</p>
<p>Though my family knows that I do not want to be hooked up to life support, I let them all know that I do not want to be hooked up to life support even if I have a fetus inside me. </p>
<p>Things I never thought I’d have to say… ugh</p>
<p>Frankly, even if the mom did want the baby carried to term (and I highly doubt that’s the case), it’s the husband who will have to raise this severely disabled baby if it the fetus even survives for much longer. He should have the final say in whether or not the body is kept on the respirator and it’s clear he doesn’t want that.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine how agonizing this must be for the husband to have to fight the court just to ensure his dead wife’s wishes are carried out.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>There’s no evidence that this baby/fetus is severely damaged. This baby could be born fully healthy. And, the dad could give the baby up for adoption either way.</p>
<p>*Mom2collegekids, you persist in describing this dead woman as being “kept alive,” “alive on machines,” “on life support,” “in a coma or something.”</p>
<p>These terms are incorrect. This woman is not in a coma. She is dead. Her brain is decaying and rotting.*</p>
<p>Fine…even with your description…we have no evidence that this woman has said, “that if something happens to me while I’m pregnant, do not do anything to sustain the pregnancy.” </p>
<p>My point is that most women never have that conversation while pregnant. maybe doctors need to start asking pregnant women this question and having them sign on the dotted line.<br>
Maybe family members need to ask their pregnant loved ones and get their signatures. Anyone here want to ask? (not me!! lol)</p>
<p>*Though my family knows that I do not want to be hooked up to life support, I let them all know that I do not want to be hooked up to life support even if I have a fetus inside me. </p>
<p>Things I never thought I’d have to say… ugh*</p>
<p>Right…because you’re like many/most women… we don’t think we ever have to say that, because we don’t think about such a situation while pregnant.</p>
<p>You cannot plan for every single possibility in life, m2ck.</p>
<p>She and her husband had had many conversations about this very issue. He, I’m guessing, knows her wishes better than some random politicians in Texas. </p>
<p>Even if the fetus is carried to term and by some fluke doesn’t die within hours/days, do you have any idea how hard it is to get special needs children adopted out? </p>
<p>If a family wants to adopt, there are 130,000 children waiting for families. </p>
<p>Here are some names and faces of real living, breathing children that could be adopted RIGHT NOW: [Adopt</a> America Network | Children for Adoption](<a href=“http://www.adoptamericanetwork.org/waiting-children/]Adopt”>Waiting Children — Adopt America Network)</p>
<p>ETA: Just found out that my state is another that will completely ignore my wishes if I have a fetus. Another motivation for me to get out of this hole.</p>
<p>You cannot plan for every single possibility in life, m2ck.</p>
<p>Of course not. But pregnancy is different. I’m not saying that the person needs to say, “only pull the plug if: I don’t have a child graduating this year, my youngest child is 18+, I’m at least 55 years old,” and so forth. Pregnancy is different. It makes sense that the woman should have to firmly state that this is what she’d want in this situation.</p>
<p>I don’t think that there are 130,000 newborns waiting to be adopted. Those numbers may include older kids. </p>
<p>Also, again, we do not know if the baby is damaged. I hope that it’s not. I hope that he/she will be placed in a loving home.</p>
<p>The fetus is considered part of the mother (or at least should be). If the mother is dead, the fetus should also be considered dead.</p>
<p>If the mother is dead, the fetus should also be considered dead.</p>
<p>Oh good heavens. </p>
<p>Well, that wouldn’t square with many WOMEN’S wishes.</p>
<p>I had a miscarriage at 16 weeks.
It wasn’t a birth.
There was no birth or death certificate.
It could not have existed outside of my body for at least 10 more weeks.</p>
<p>Ms Munoz was a paramedic & as other paramedics I have known, she was adamant that she would not be kept alive on machines.
Even if this had been chiseled in marble, Texas state law currently states that living wills are not applicable to pregnant women.</p>
<p>Current Texas law allows abortions before 20 weeks.
It seems confusing to live in Texas.</p>
<p>. If the mother is dead, the fetus should also be considered dead.</p>
<p>lol…so if this fetus is born and lives…did it miraculously rise from the dead?</p>
<p>*
Current Texas law allows abortions before 20 weeks.
It seems confusing to live in Texas.*</p>
<p>It’s not just Texas. It’s many states.</p>
<p>There’s never going to be a state that has perfectly sane laws in regards to these issues.</p>
<p>The same state that will allow an abortion at 20 weeks, will also charge a person with a double homicide for killing a 10 week pregnant woman. </p>
<p>The same state that may charge a woman for using drugs during her pregnancy and damaging the baby may allow abortion up to the 40th week. </p>
<p>The argument about what paramedics say about “being kept alive on machines” is irrelevant. Virtually everyone says that…look at the responses here on these threads. No one wants extra-ordinary means or machines used to keep our bodies “alive”. </p>
<p>Does anyone here know anyone - family or friend - who says that they want to be kept alive or “hooked up” in the event of brain death or inevitable death? I don’t know anyone. Do you? </p>
<p>The issue is that most women do not state what they’d want to have done while they’re pregnant…because being pregnant is “different” for many women.</p>
<p>One thing that hasn’t been discussed is that the women who are claiming that they wouldn’t want their bodies “hooked up” to sustain a pregnancy is that for ANY gestational age?</p>
<p>IF you were days away from giving birth, would that be your answer? How about a month? two months? How ABOUT FOR ONE DAY? ONE HOUR? Where do you draw the line?</p>
<p>Granted, this Texas mom was only a few weeks pregnant, but women aren’t asked all these details. </p>
<p>Even those of you who have stated that you wouldn’t want your bodies “hooked up” as human incubators, none of you have stated that you wouldn’t want it to happen even for a few days so that your baby could get to the point of being born.</p>
<p>For this and other reasons, I can see why states have these laws. Women just don’t “go on the record” of saying, “well if I’m 25 weeks…ok,”…“if I’m 19 weeks, no.” “If I’m 27 weeks, then yes”.</p>
<p>"If asked by their OB/GYN after pregnancy occurs, some may say that they don’t want their lives sustained…but I don’t think that question is asked, and I don’t think it’s something that is discussed while pregnant. Does your OB/Gyn H ask his patients that question? "</p>
<p>No, because he’s not in charge of determining their end of life wishes in general. </p>
<p>You’re the one who is misunderstanding. When a woman voices her end of life wishes, they are what they are, whether it’s pull the plug or throw all kinds of artificial means at me. She doesn’t have to specifically call out “but what if I’m pregnant” any more than if she has to call out “but what if it’s snowing out” or “but what if it’s Tuesday.”</p>