@Center, no he did not “find her laying there.” They partied together before the assault. He tried to flee when two international students interrupted his attack, fearing that the woman was unconscious. They caught him and restrained him until police arrived.
The report I read didn’t say the international students thought the girl was drunk, she was so still they actually thought she was dead. It did not look like a couple messing around, it looked like a man desecrating a corpse. The international students were large men and they cried when they told the story it was that disturbing.
And it really doesn’t matter why the victim was drunk or unconscious, if someone is unconscious it’s not remotely OK to have sex with them…
Doesn’t matter. There’s no way of becoming unconscious that licenses another person to penetrate you.
Nope it doesn’t but it never would have happened if both hadn’t been drunk so food for thought. Hopefully both have given up binge drinking.
You have no way of knowing for sure that he wouldn’t rape a sober woman. It’s not likely only drunk women are raped. Holding her responsible is a form of victim blaming.
"Nope it doesn’t but it never would have happened if both hadn’t been drunk so food for thought. "
How could you possibly know what might have happened if they hadn’t been drunk? Sober men rape women and sober women are raped. This wasn’t a case of a woman who was a little tipsy saying “yes” and changing her mind the next day; this woman was totally unconscious, incapacitated. Turner’s actions were not different than finding an unconscious hit and run victim lying beside the road and raping that victim. Would someone tell that hit and run victim that if they hadn’t been walking on the sidewalk, none of this would have happened? Of course not! That’s silly.
Nobody grills mugging victims about what they were wearing or sanctimoniously lectures them that if they hadn’t been outside at that hour they wouldn’t have been mugged. Whether there are actions people can choose to take to avoid crime is a personal choice and irrelevant to whether a crime has occurred. It’s offensive that we act like women are responsible for preventing their own rape and then criticizing them if they haven’t prevented it.
@momofthreeboys - It wouldn’t have happened if the boy in question wasn’t a rapist, either. I really resent the blame-the-victim message – conscious or not – in your post.
Too bad. He committed the crime but yes it is poor parenting and poor societal policing to give the impression to kids that engaging in risky behavior is acceptable because the bad people will be caught and punished and none of it is on them for doing something risky to begin with. Again I hope they both stopped binge drinking. She because it is darn risky. He, because he should.
I fervently hope that Brock Turner stops raping women.
Women shouldn’t binge drink because of risk.
Men shouldn’t binge get drink because they shouldn’t.
???
How about: binge drinking is a very bad idea, for many reasons, regardless of gender.
Agree. I was specifically referencing two people. I am hugely against underage and binge drinking by anyone and am firmly in record about what I think of college drinking culture and how it has contributed to the unrest on campuses.
If college women stopped drinking entirely, I’m not sure how many men they would protect and keep from becoming rapists. That would be a huge responsibility for women. If college men quit drinking entirely, would there be no rapes?
We have had this discussion many times here over the years. I see a few new usernames.
It’s poor parenting for mothers of boys to repeatedly blame victims for their rape. It might make their sons think that women who make mistakes deserve to be raped.
I think it should be added that the woman was 21 or over at the time of the assault, and so it was legal for her to drink. Turner was underage and should not have been drinking alcohol at all. Drinking to excess is not a good idea, but it is hardly the case that remaining sober is enough to prevent a woman from being raped.
The two were “partying together” only in the sense that they were both attending the same large party on the Stanford campus. They did not seem to interact much at all at the party, based on the reports; and they had never met each other prior to the party, as far as I can tell.
I believe that Turner followed the woman out of the party. She left walking, again, as far as I can tell from the reports. What exactly happened between that time and the time that the two foreign students came upon Turner assaulting the woman is not known.
@“Cardinal Fang” – Your post #92: =D>
Please remember that, as per the trial, this was a 25-year old woman who had gone to a party with her little sister, pushed away awkward freshman Brock’s " expressions of interest", and suddenly started to feel faint despite drinking little (she even offered she may have lost the habit of “college partying” after graduating since she “usually” didnt react to liquor that way). She decided to get some air, where Brock offered to help her down the stairs. That’s when she lost consciousness. What happened between the moment she lost consciousness is that Brock picked her up, dragged her behind the dumpster, and decided to use her as a sex doll. All of that is established from the trial and is not in question. We don’t know his motivation when he made the decision or why, if it was planned or spur of the moment, how long it lasted. But it happened. There were witnesses at the party and two graduate students who caught Brock.
^^^^^Was she tested for the possibility that she had been drugged?
Apparently, she wasn’t. The hypothesis hung heavy in the air but since there was no proof and everything else was iron clad, the lawyers focused on what was proven. It was ironclad - witnesses for everything except the exact moment she lost consciousness.
Nobody thought he’d get 6months in county jail out in 3 for time served. It’s really strange that Brock appealed that judgement because he could have had 6-8 years.
And the fact the judge’s defenders tried to help him by saying recalling him would encourage stricter penalties for sex crimes (meaning it’d be bad) shows what mindset the judge and his circle functioned with.
“Apparently, she wasn’t”.
Wasn’t tested or wasn’t drugged?
“Wasn’t tested or wasn’t drugged?”
It likely varies by area, but around here they don’t even test for date rape type drugs. The rationale given is that the drugs rarely show up in tests because they’re metabolized and eliminated very quickly. Strategically, the police/DAs have decided that it’s better not to test than to test and get a negative test result (because the drugs were already excreted) that has to be given to the defendant as exculpatory.