Brown PLME vs. UC Berkeley Regents

[bluebayou]

<p>

^ If you are good enough for Brown PLME, you will do fine at other top 25-30 med schools that are arguably way better than Alpert Brown med to begin with.</p>

<p>If you want a “better” med school than Alpert, then go to UC Berkeley.

</p>

<p>I concur with Phead’s first point, but disagree with the second. Getting accepted into a “better” med school will be easier from grade-inflated Brown. Heck, with a 3.6 mean senior gpa, practically half the class automatically qualifies for med and law schools. Add in an extremeley generous add-drop policy w/o transcript penalty, and Brown is a no-brainer if: the family doesn’t mind paying; and, the OP likes Brown’s culture.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>That huge difference in cost is what would concern me if I were the OP. Still, early acceptance into medical school does make it much easier to enjoy your undergraduate years. It is a hard decision to be sure. Personally, I’d go to Brown because of the guarantee. Best of luck to you either way. You are obviously very smart and would more than likely get into a great medical school no matter where you graduated from.</p>

[modestmelody]

<p>

I concur with Phead’s first point, but disagree with the second. Getting accepted into a “better” med school will be easier from grade-inflated Brown. Heck, with a 3.6 mean senior gpa, practically half the class automatically qualifies for med and law schools. Add in an extremeley generous add-drop policy w/o transcript penalty, and Brown is a no-brainer if: the family doesn’t mind paying; and, the OP likes Brown’s culture.

</p>

<p>There are some other things worth noting about the notion of “no penalty”. If you’re placed on academic warning, at Brown, unlike pretty much all of our peers, that permanently goes on your transcript. Academic leave is also noted on transcripts permanently. So there certainly is a huge penalty if you’re dropping courses frequently. Remember, 30 courses required to graduate means 2 courses you could drop/fail and graduate-- get below the pace to graduate with 30 courses (which is very easy) and you’re getting that academic warning on your transcript.</p>

<p>So no, we don’t penalize a student who though they could take some class that was just way beyond the reasonable scope of their experience and took on too much-- at least the first or second time. That’s a safety net, but a very short one.</p>

<p>It’s also worth noting that the “pre-med” courses at Brown do not have a grade distribution like the rest of the university. There’s a pretty sharp cut off in orgo around top 20% that gets As, for instance. So it’s not as though we hand out As like candy-- they just tend to be common in small, upper level courses where all the students are there because they are prepared and really want be in that class specifically.</p>

<p>In some departments, grading policies are different than others like anywhere. Chemistry, for instance, does not have 50% of its students getting As in any class other than maybe 1 or 2 seminars. If you’re at the average, you’re getting a B.</p>

[middsmith]

<p>

@modestmelody

You have no idea where students at Brown or Berkeley go on to graduate school. Considering all my friends who have chosen to go are going to top 10 programs, I’m not sure that there is such a thing as “better”. I don’t know what happens at Berkeley, I only know anecdotally about the people I know as a current college senior. I’m not sure you even have that, limited though it may be, perspective.</p>

<p>What I’m saying is not that one places offers these experiences and one place doesn’t. What I’m saying is which experiences, presented how, under what structures, in a particular culture is unique to EVERY institution.

Then what’s wrong with only looking at salaries for graduates without advanced degrees? It’s a fair comparison.</p>

<p>

@modestmelody

There are some other things worth noting about the notion of “no penalty”. If you’re placed on academic warning, at Brown, unlike pretty much all of our peers, that permanently goes on your transcript. Academic leave is also noted on transcripts permanently. So there certainly is a huge penalty if you’re dropping courses frequently. Remember, 30 courses required to graduate means 2 courses you could drop/fail and graduate-- get below the pace to graduate with 30 courses (which is very easy) and you’re getting that academic warning on your transcript.</p>

<p>So no, we don’t penalize a student who though they could take some class that was just way beyond the reasonable scope of their experience and took on too much-- at least the first or second time. That’s a safety net, but a very short one.

Sure, it’s true what you said, but only 1-2% drop or fail in each course. The statistic to drop/fail 2 courses would be 0.01-0.04%. So it’s very very hard to get that academic warning on your transcript. And you can just cover those pesky warnings with gold stars. </p>

<p>

It’s also worth noting that the “pre-med” courses at Brown do not have a grade distribution like the rest of the university. There’s a pretty sharp cut off in orgo around top 20% that gets As, for instance. So it’s not as though we hand out As like candy-- they just tend to be common in small, upper level courses where all the students are there because they are prepared and really want be in that class specifically.</p>

<p>In some departments, grading policies are different than others like anywhere. Chemistry, for instance, does not have 50% of its students getting As in any class other than maybe 1 or 2 seminars. If you’re at the average, you’re getting a B.

Yes they do, if more than half get As, that’s handing out As like candy.<br>
You’re right, it’s not 50%, it is 45% for physical science.</p>

[modestmelody]

<p>

Then what’s wrong with only looking at salaries for graduates without advanced degrees? It’s a fair comparison.

</p>

<p>You’re conflating two different conversations. Separately, I’ve already gone over the many factors that have a significantly wider effect on student income after undergraduate that make measuring across institutions an unrevealing statistic. However, what I was saying is because of the difference in how different schools produce a similar product, one place may make a lot more sense for a one student than another. What one person can accomplish at Berkeley may be very different than at Brown because of how the structures affect their success. On the whole, the end product looks similar, but how you get there and what type of student is successful at each place is different. That’s why for some people it would make sense to come to Brown over Berkeley, because some will thrive in one environment, others in the second.</p>

<p>

Sure, it’s true what you said, but only 1-2% drop or fail in each course. The statistic to drop/fail 2 courses would be 0.01-0.04%. So it’s very very hard to get that academic warning on your transcript. And you can just cover those pesky warnings with gold stars.

Dropped courses are not recorded as NCs so there is no systematic, public data on that last I heard. Way more than 1-2% of courses are dropped.

You’re right, it’s not 50%, it is 45% for physical science

Not at a lower level course, and not in chemistry period. And in a class with 4 people concentrating in chemistry, it’s unlikely that only 1 student will do A level work. Grades =/= how you’re doing in comparison to others, often it is how well students stack against an expectation.</p>

[bluebayou]

<p>

It’s also worth noting that the “pre-med” courses at Brown do not have a grade distribution like the rest of the university.

</p>

<p>Mathematically, they almost have to. With a huge matriculating class of premeds (like many other top unis), there is no way to get to a 3.6 mean gpa for graduating seniors without a lot of A’s being given out to Frosh, unless it is virtually impossible to earn anything less than an A in an upper division classes. Regardless, its the four-year gpa that counts for med school apps. A few B’s frosh year are meaningless.</p>

<p>But, more importantly, Cal gives out C’s like candy, not to mention plenty of D’s and F’s, which are beyond rare in the Ivies.</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>^ Berkeley education puts some hair on your chest…nothing wrong with that.</p>

[BrownBear1]

<p>hair on your cheast??? thats gross…who wants a hairy guys?</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>^ Haha…at least it ain’t on your back.</p>

[DunninLA]

<p>UCBChemguy – depends on your gender.</p>

[stueydue]

<p>just something to throw out there (and if my knowledge about this is incorrect, let me know): If I for SOME REASON decide to take the MCAT and do well, I can go to a “better” med school if I want to. The PLME is nonbinding, its a medical school GUARANTEE. So if i decide that I want more freedom and time in my undergrad, I can rely on my med spot at brown. If I want to work extremely hard and study grueling hours for the MCAT, I can do that and try to go to another med school.</p>

[mini]

<p>How much will Brown cost you a year? Berkeley?</p>

[middsmith]

<p>mini, OP said it’s full paying at both. Berkeley Regents gives her $1000/year.</p>

[mini]

<p>Still doesn’t tell me what the difference is, though it suggests that if the OP can pay full freight at Brown and then $200k+ for med school, the family must be rolling in dough.</p>

[DunninLA]

<p>mini – OP’s location appears to be CA. In that case:</p>

<p>Berkeley: $24,000 all in (transport, insurance, tuitions, fees, room/board, incidentals - Regents $1,000))
Brown: $52,000 all in</p>

<p>$112,000 difference over four years.</p>

[mini]

<p>It’s not my money, but was this discussion worth any of the heat? It sounds like the OP’s family is made of money to even be considering Brown, under the circumstances.</p>

[RML]

<p>

$112,000 difference over four years.

</p>

<p>No school is worth that much over Berkeley.That’s just too much for a price to turn down Berkeley for Brown. Unless the OP is wealthy, s/he can go ahead with Brown. But personally, I wouldn’t go to Brown if I have an option to go to Berkeley (or even UCLA and UCSD) even if it will cost me a little more to go to Berkeley. I believe Berkeley is the stronger university between the two. But then again, that’s me, and in my world Berkeley is one of the very best in the world.</p>