BWRKs, hooks, and blasphemy

Parents Forum
61

<p>cangel, I appreciate the “chill” thoughts but the essays aren’t my concern. Yet. LOL. I’ll start stressing over that later. It’s the anti-BWRK forces of darkness. I guess it’s really that I don’t feel comfortable still with what these folks want in an admit. I’ve accepted it might not be my D that they are looking for (or she for them), but…I’m still foolish and, I admit, obstinate enough to think there is some logical process that is escaping me , even after everyone keeps beating me senseless with admonitions that there is not. (And I do appreciate and am thankful for the insights offered. I’m learning, I promise. )</p>

<p>Let’s take it elementally-they don’t want BWRK’s. So they don’t want “bright” kids. I assume that means they want kids who are superior not inferior to bright. Makes sense ,right? Superior intellect . Where is that line? Does it require even more, maybe brilliance as in “genius”? I don’t know. How do they ferret out this “brilliance”? Is D “brilliant”? Not to me. According to IQ testing-yes, technically she is a genius. WooHoo. That and $5.00 will get her a cup of coffee. But then again the accepted definition of genius has always seemed way too inclusive. </p>

<p>If well rounded equates to dull or at least is insufficiently interesting , then would one assume “passionate about a field” is what they are looking for? I don’t think so because plenty of folks are passionate at a task and worthless at the same time. So does it have to be a passion resulting in a potential significant contribution to science or art or sport or religion or politics, or an already produced significant contribution-published, performed, and patented ? If BWRK is what they don’t want, what is it that they do want? BNHK, Brilliant Nationally (or at least statewide) Honored Kid? If they’ll just post that somewhere lots of kids would choose not to waste the app fees , but then their numbers wouldn’t look as good would they?</p>

62

<p>curmudgeon,</p>

<p>I think the BWRK acronym is for the kid who is decent on paper but “meh”-- nothing pops, nothing memorable, nothing exciting to latch on to. The admitted kids are maybe 20% superstars and 80% BWRKs, but the <em>admitted</em> BWRKs have succeeded at coming across on paper as interesting or compelling people.</p>

<p>Technically you can BE a BWRK (meaning nothing world-class) but still come across much more vividly-- “that interesting nature photographer/distance runner who wrote about her summer job tagging wildlife…”</p>

<p>This same kid with a blah interivew, different essays, and a bunch of filler ECs crowding out and obscuring the genuine interests might well be deemed BWRK. But when the kid comes across as a real, distinctive person they are less likely to be lumped into BWRK purgatory.</p>

<p>If you are a BWRK with specific differences, passions, fascinations and you let them show, then you may stand out a bit more and avoid the perjorative label.</p>

63

<p>SBmom, but does that photography have to be award winning and do those 10,000 meter times have to rank nationally to make a dent? Someone posted earlier, a pre-med oboe player gets barely a nod because it’s unlikely they will continue in college, I’m paraphrasing. </p>

<p>So a basketball player who can’t play for the college team gets nada, the tuba player gets zilch, the local science and math fair winner get nothing unless it’s national caliber?Even if they are all the same person? I just think adcom’s have to be smart enough to realize if all a kid does day in day out is play the tuba ,or row, or play ball, they’ll probably get better than another kid who is passionate about several disparate things.</p>

64

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t think so, but maybe I am wrong.</p>

<p>All of us know kids who are very acomplished and-- zzzzzzz-- completely dull. All of us also know other kids who are similarly accomplished, but also just the sort of person you’d like to spend a long airplane ride talking to… </p>

<p>I would guess that kid #1 is a BWRK. If a kid presents an app where she comes across as #2, admission is more likely. There may not be that much technical difference between the acomplishments of the dinged BWRK and the admitted passionate doer, but the passionate doer comes across much better.</p>

<p>A college would like kid # 2 because kid #2 enhances his classmates experience, gets involved, finds a path in life, is productively engaged (and ultimately makes something of himself and donates $.)</p>

<p>Kid # 2 is genuine. That’s hard to package.</p>

65

<p>Well Curmudgeon, you’re still thinking that they don’t want BWRKs, despite all of the evidence to the contrary here, anecdotal though it may be! I don’t think well rounded need be dull. How could anyone think Soozie’s daughter is dull? Come now! (just one example). Maybe another way to look at well rounded is “multi talented”. A lot of people would be pleased to have even one of the talents that some of these kids have–even if not world-class. I see it more as many talented, not devoid of talents. And as for potential significant contribution, I think a potential contribution to the college community is huge. Why not admit someone who will use his talents not just for his own gain but to enhance his bit of the world? </p>

<p>As for essays, they were just suggested as a means to get across the many interesting qualities of the BWR, but modest, K. As SBmom says, there may be passions and fascinations and so on that elevate the BWRK from “we’ve seen a million like this” to WANTED. </p>

<p>Oh SBmom, I like that last line!</p>

66

<p>O.K. I give up. LOL. I surrender to the vagaries of the system . I thought we all accepted the idea that BWRK’s were shunned. I am now completely confused other than -“they pick who they want for whatever reason they want because they can”. I will officially quit trying (for now, at least-hopefully forever) to understand the workings of selective college admissions. I’ll just tell D they throw darts in a bar down in Oaxaca. I’m not so sure they don’t.</p>

67

<p>Ha, no, not darts, I don’t think. They’re building a community of all sorts of people. Some of those people are going to be SBmom’s BWRK, of example 2 variety!</p>

<p>Don’t fret. (Easy for me to say–I think I didn’t know enough to fret.) Just have your daughter find some good fits, and you’ll see that some of those schools will agree that she fits there perfectly.</p>

68

<p>Oh curmudgeon…one of our favorite quotes at our house from this silly radio show in the morning is:</p>

<p>“and remember, you are unique…just like EVERYBODY else” </p>

<p>If we were to figure out the rules of the admission’s game, then they would just change them up again.</p>

69

<p>I gave up on trying to guess the game. My S not even offered interview at an ivy I considered a match for him. His essay on “why ___?” was one of his 2 best; a dozen relatives had attended there (3 generations), a best friend attends, etc. All I could figure was applying as a junior, last day, didn’t help. He didn’t push for interview, because not required.
Thank goodness, many schools will provide a good fit</p>

70

<p>Bookworm: I wouldn’t assume that it matters whether your son was offered an interview to an Ivy; I think it really depends on whether someone happens to be available in your area. Also, for what it’s worth, my daughter was contacted for her interviews at several Ivies after this time last year. </p>

<p>But again, I believe interviews have little or no bearing on admissions. My secret suspicion is that their main purpose is to keep alumni engaged with their old schools.</p>

71

<p>Editrix
I agree completely. I was including S’s experience to point out vagaries of admissions. Schools considered more elite did “reach” out (the schools that are a reach/lottery for most anyone). My point is, this was his favorite match, and he would happily have atended.</p>

72

<p>Cricket, I was speaking of application essays, not SATII writing. I’m with Robyrm, I think they have to be collecting data this year, in some fashion. I found the idea of memorizing an essay amusing. But after all the SATII writing was formulaic enough, that part of prepping for it could be assembling some arguments/examples ahead of time. I’m glad my daughter isn’t applying this year, because frankly I’m not sure they know what to do with the test yet. Think about it a minute - say they get an excellent application essay, and they are deciding if this child wrote it or not. They pul the SAT essay, and it is OK not great, but kind of the same, what do you do? What the SAT essay is grammatically poor? Where will they draw the line? Also, one of the things many of our children struggle with in app essays is writing about themselves, and highlighting their personalities - I’m assuming the SAT essay will be very similar tothe SATII writing - that’s not going to highlight personality.</p>

<p>Curmudge - I think they do admit BWRKs, and a BWRK who shoots rattlesnakes is definitely out of the mainstream! One of DD’s EC essays involved alligators, so reptiles can get you far, if put in the proper context. Seriously, the tendency on this forum is to really push hooks. Hooks are important, a real hook - recruit quality, or better yet, Olympic quality athletics, concert musicians, scientific geniuses with real published research - no doubt these characteristics will get a kid a leg up. So would 20 million I expect. But those numbers are only a fraction of all the students admitted to selective schools. Many Bwrks are admitted, but it is quite possible that they have hooks, too, these are not just as obvious. Also the rarity of the “hook” may matter, depending on which school you are talking about - a hook may need to be more uncommon to count at Yale, than say Dartmouth.
What would I do differently if I had a daughter with my DD’s stats and attributes who was a junior now (a BWRK with high test scores/good grades/ECs she enjoyed, but no tremendous accomplishments, one EC out of the mainstream, but not that unusual)? Not much, I would mentally up her chances at Yale a little (from miniscule to at least measurable), be less worried that she would end up at her safety, and encourage her to find 3-4 schools that she really felt comfortable attending, because her chances at 1 or more carefully chosen match/reaches were almost 100%, but can’t predict which one. Finish later</p>

73

<p>Delurking on this thread only to compliment the contributors. Fabulous, insightful discussion. Can’t imagine why I’d pay $25,000 for a college counselor when I can get this for free.</p>

74

<p>My definitely lopsided S with some hooks decided to portray himself in his essay as a regular guy–rounding his edges, so to speak. He wrote his essays about totally ordinary pursuits that have yielded ordinary results. No melodrama either in his life or in his essays.
I can’t say that it was that strategy that got him in, but if I were an adcom, I would have been glad to note that he was multidimensional, as opposed to the characters in his beloved “Flatland.”</p>

75

<p>I think BWRKs do get in. This year, at least according to this board, about 1/3 of the ED applicants at U of Penn and Duke got in. They can’t all have had fabulous hooks. Must have been a few well rounded ones among the bunch! :)</p>

76

<p>I think this stretch of time between the submission of applications and learning the results is very tough, very anxious making. The die is cast, there’s nothing to do but wait. I sense the mounting tension on these pages. My kid is bright and well-rouded–does that mean she has no chance? We’re from New York, there’s a thousand New Yorkers applying to every school my child applied to–what will become of her? How can my innocent, honest 17 year old compete against these system-gaming sharks with their hired guns? It’s gratuituous, I know, but I want to say: relax, lighten up, it’s a more rational system than it seems. My modest and diffident son, who hates congratulations, almost always says the same thing when a well-meaning person offers congrats for getting in to a top school: " thanks, but you know, all my friends from high school love their colleges, and think they are at exactly the right place for them."</p>

77

<p>Of course BWRKs get in, and some of them are from overrepresented areas. It’s just that there are so many of them that some of them will not get in to their top choices if those choices are Ivys or AWS, and the difference between those who do get in and those who don’t can be tiny, subjective, arbitrary, whatever (a swimmer not good enough to recruit but who might be a good walk-on, an actor whose essay included a reference to a rehearsal incident that piqued the interest of a member of the admissions committee, a student government member whose take on a high school honor code indicates a good fit at a school proud of its own honor code). </p>

<p>It’s really important to remember that your child can be a delightful person with high grades and SAT scores who charms just about everyone he/she meets, writes decent or even rather good essays, and may even be pretty special in some way, but the numbers just don’t always work. It’s great when they do, and the fact that they don’t is why it is so important to put together a college list that includes schools other than the lottery-ticket ones that are still good enough to challenge and reward a top student. One of my children was, slightly surprisingly, accepted at what had faairly consistently been his top choice; the other, also slightly surprisingly, was not, but attends a top ten LAC that I would say is an excellent fit. </p>

<p>The proliferation of wait list letters received at my children’s high school last year and the ED deferrals I have heard about this year suggest that more and more kids even from schools that have done well with certain admissions in the past are just not getting in the way they used to. If your child gets in, that’s wonderful, but if things do not work out as initially hoped or even expected, both parents and students should take some comfort in knowing that painful as a deferral, wait list, or ultimate denial can be, the applicant is in good company and will very likely end up at at a school that is also a fine choice–where he or she will meet lots of other equally able and interesting students who either didn’t get in to their first choices or are exactly where they wanted to be in the first place!</p>

78

<p>curmudgeon,
The mention of the “Admissions Confidential” book turned my stomach, & I try not to re-open it, because it always re-nauseates me to do so. But my memory of the author’s intent/tone regarding “BWRK’s” is that it was indeed a pejorative label. (As at least one other poster said.) It is the most cynical book I have read in my life, revealing, i.m.o., a thoroughly jaded ex-adcom member. This is the way I read her message:</p>

<p>BWRK’s [not, as I interpret, just simply bright, rather – quite accomplished, perhaps very bright, definitely high-achieving – could be even top 5-10% of their class, & usually with considerable talent] are just – well, boring. First of all, there are simply too many of them [yawn]. I mean, 80% of our applicants are in this category. We’re overwhelmed with the numbers of them alone, & secondarily with the similarities of their accomplishments. To actually sift through these applications carefully would be far too much agonizing work; hell – we have so little time for each app, you know.</p>

<p>Secondly [big yawn now] these kids are FAR too nice. How boring to have character, community service, a clean record, & consistently fine behavior.</p>

<p>Now, HERE’s an interesting applicant by contrast: Grew up in total privilege [upper East Side NYC, I think]. Whole family went to an Ivy (not Duke). Major legacy at that school, but gee, she just couldn’t BEAR the pressure to attend said Ivy, so (heck, understandably), she became anorexic. I mean, what else would you do to respond to that pressure? Poor thing, so many advantages, so little time. So, anorexia became her behavior of choice, along with [I think I remember] bad grades for one or two years of h.s. But, hey, great [manipulative] essay that leaves me sobbing about her anorexia. A true admit. </p>

<p>[Folks, this is a true story!]</p>

<p>[Now here’s the subtext, CC parents: If those BWRK’s had just played their cards right, they would have done something equally dramatic, risky, stupid, life-threatening, & therefore I would have rewarded them for making my boring job at least a little interesting.]</p>

<p>(There were similar examples in the book of students admitted BECAUSE they had blown one or 4 of their h.s. years, but dang – just felt oh so awful about it, & lived to write about it.)</p>

<p>So [back to author’s voice now], we here at Duke are so overwhelmed with goody-two-shoes BWRK’s, that we consider only 2 kinds of applicants: (1) repentant prodigal sons or daughters, or (2) achievers so high off the charts that the BWRK’s can’t touch them. These would be students who have done one or more of the following [this is an actual paraphrase from the book]: major published research, a part in a Hollywood film (!), significant INTERNAT’L recognition. We also really appreciate these applicants because they make our jobs easier. Now we’re down to 2 categories: the really high & the really low. That’s an applicant quantity we can deal with.</p>

<hr>

<p>(Oh, grab a barph bag.)</p>

79

<p>Epiphany, that may be the only admissions book I haven’t actually read, but it occurs to me after your description, that perhaps her attitude and set of priorities is why she is an ex-adcom who has moved on into the more lucrative world of book publishing? Perhaps?</p>

80

<p>epiphany, I never read that book but that makes me want to barph too. </p>

<p>I can see it now…tips for getting into college: go anorexic for a year, have a pot brownie and write about how you owned up to it, get caught for DUI and repent and go on tour talking to high schools about your mistake, etc. There might be a market for this kind of coaching!</p>