Cabaret

alwaysamom · May 3, 2009, 7:26pm

pageturner, that’s interesting that your school did Gypsy. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a high school production of Gypsy. It’s a great show, many think it’s the finest musical in the American theatre canon.

smallcolleges, the song in Rent to which you referred is Contact, and yes, that would probably not be appropriate for high school productions. MTI spent a lot of time and effort into developing the school edition over a period of about 3 years where the material was worked and reworked into a high school appropriate version. As I said earlier, it is the most requested show this year, both for high schools and for regional/community theatre productions.

pageturner, I think that if a school is doing a school edition, which are geared for high school kids, then it should be open to all in 9-12 to audition. Some shows do not have official school editions, and then it’s a matter of the director/drama teacher making the determination as to what is appropriate. Most schools that have strong drama programs, and are not arts high schools, have an abundance of kids to play most roles. This is why it’s usual for upper year students to make up the majority of each cast. At some schools where this isn’t the case, then the drama dept. should be more thoughtful about which shows are chosen with an eye to how casting is to be done. I know that the policy at many schools is to have the largest cast possible so that the maximum number of kids get to participate, but this isn’t always the optimal way to choose or to put on a show.

As for how old is old enough? I don’t think there’s a definitive answer. There are professionals out there who are high school age, who have been on Broadway stages and in national tours in shows that many here would likely consider controversial. Spring Awakening jumps to mind. I think that it’s important for kids who are involved in theatre, and the parents of those kids, to realize that they have a responsibility to know what they’re getting into when they audition. It’s not difficult to research a show, if you are someone who is unfamiliar with theatre. Then it becomes a personal decision as to whether or not to participate. And, if you have a kid who intends to pursue theatre in college, it really is doing them a disservice to censor what they can see or participate in when it comes to their training and exposure to theatre.

soozievt · May 3, 2009, 8:20pm

My kids have seen all sorts of theater from a very young age…be it RENT, Full Monty, Chicago, Gypsy, and so on. In fact, my then 11 year old was in Gypsy (as Baby June).

Again, at my D’s theater camp, as well as her sister’s theater camp, which both attended for years and from a young age, all sorts of shows are performed and they do not stick to kiddie fare or “safe” shows. Granted, families who send their children to such a camp, are supportive of theater and all types of theater, for that matter. They put on such shows as Laramie Project, RENT, Sweeney Todd, Follies, Jekyll and Hyde, Nine, Jesus Christ Superstar, Chicago, Cabaret, The Wild Party, Avenue Q, Carrie, The Producers, Merrily We Roll Along, Runaways, Violet, Miss Saigon, Les Mis, and so on.

I realize public school is a bit different but I do believe the shows should be chosen with the experience in mind for the kids who are in them and not just what appeals to the community at large. Our high school just put on West Side Story and I have never seen such a crowd there in my life…standing room only. But I figured that was due to it being a show that most are familiar with…whereas the year before, Anyone Can Whistle, a Sondheim show, had less attendance. Frankly, when my D’s school chose Wizard of Oz, she and the other kids were let down after coming off of Cabaret and Sondheim’s Into the Woods prior to that. Granted, my D played Dorothy, a wonderful role every little actress should play at some point, and she does love Wizard of Oz and had been in it twice before, it just did not offer the level of challenge that musicals like Cabaret offered. She would much prefer to be in Cabaret. I have NO restrictions of what shows my kid could be in. She played Lucy (a whore) in Jekyll and Hyde when she was 16 and was in the musical, Nine, when she was 15 and that show has some adult themes in it too. My D did an in depth study of RENT in elementary school as an independent project and presented material from that show in an independent project in her high school as well. I see no point to keeping to “safe subjects” and I want my kids exposed to all sorts of the arts…by being IN them and also watching such performances. The idea of a high school not allowing a show like Cabaret, bothers me. I would want my kids exposed to such musical theater greats. I do not feel that the high school has an obligation to pick musicals for the eight year old crowd. Then again, I would want my eight year old to see Cabaret anyway.

Last year, in college, when my D was nineteen (I realize this was not high school and so not the same), she was in a musical where she did an entire scene entirely topless full frontal view and simulated sex. I had no problem with that either, though could see that not being allowed in high school.

I am not into censoring theater for high school audiences and participation in terms of what is “safe” topics whatsoever. And who decides, anyway, which topics are OK and which are not?

pageturner · May 3, 2009, 10:35pm

And there are a lot of theater greats out there. But my point is that we are neglecting many theater greats because of the desire for controversy in high school theater.

Ultimately, the school board, which is backed by the community. Until then, it is the good sense of the director and the principal of the school.

Absolutely, these controversial shows have immense value. And, there are plenty of places to perform in them and see them. And, yes, I have taken my kids to many of them. But not in a high school theater.

I fully support live theater, and do not advocate censorship, but this is high school we are talking about. Public high school (in my case) which is supported by the community and their tax dollars. Not community theater, not Broadway, not college, not summer theater camp. All of those are supported by private funds, and only answer to those that fund them directly, not by election or ballot.

And, since I brought up drawing the line on age, what about the line on which shows are OK, and which are not? Will we be seeing Spring Awakening (the high school version) any time soon? :)

alwaysamom · May 3, 2009, 11:31pm

I don’t think that too many schools are “neglecting many theatre greats because of the desire for controversy”. Most schools are successful in choosing a balance in the variety of shows chosen for their productions. This is how it should be.

Where we live, the school board does not decide. The schools themselves make these decisions. The Toronto District School Board has over 100 high schools. It isn’t the job of the school board trustees to monitor what shows the drama kids are doing, thankfully.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Spring Awakening license available to high schools at some point. The rights are restricted at the moment while the show is on tour but it’s only a matter of time before they’re released. Have you seen the show, pageturner? The largest demographic group of the show’s fans is high school girls, and, as I mentioned earlier, there have been high school age kids in the show professionally. The show is about high school kids so, ideally, should be played by them.

Susan, this discussion brings back memories of the thread from a few years ago about the production of Hair at Tisch. :)

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 12:08am

I absolutely do NOT believe that the motivation behind these production selections is a desire for controversy! There should not be controversy to put on such musical theater greats. Such selections are not to seek controversy. Controversy arises when people have either closed minds or want to shield high school students from certain topics, themes, or works (this happens sometimes with books too). In my view, the topics in musicals like Cabaret are very important for a high school student to grapple with and are even historical in nature. I also support a show like Spring Awakening in high schools when the rights become available though imagine certain words or scenes may have slight adjustments made. But as AlwaysAMom wrote, that musical particularly appeals to high school aged students as audience members! And after all, the characters are in high school!

By the way, my kids attended a public school.

Are you against shows like Hair in public school? I am not. My kids’ theater camp put it on. They simply did not have nudity. But the topics and themes of that show are important for teens and also a piece of history.

What exactly is YOUR criteria of which shows or themes are OK for high school? Are no sexual themes allowed? No murder? No gay relationships? No mention of drugs? No Holocaust? (Is Anne Frank ok?) What about Grease? The Crucible? Godspell? Sweeney Todd? RENT? Jekyll and Hyde?

Why should teens only be exposed to watching or portraying such musicals as Oklahoma (which by the way has a suicide in it)? or West Side Story (which by the way has murder, gangs, and rape in it)? I’m all for those classic shows, believe me. But there are many other shows that are very worthy and my support of them is not to induce controversy but rather, these are great works too (ie., RENT, Spring Awakening, Cabaret, Chicago, Hair, etc.).

AlwaysAMom, yes, I recall the discussion on the MT forum about Hair at Tisch but also the discussion about La Cage aux Folles at a high school.

alwaysamom · May 4, 2009, 12:20am

^^Oh, my, how could I forget the La Cage discussion. I’m the one who started it! :)

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 12:25am

Yep, the discussion about Hair was more to do with nudity in a college theater production…and hey, my kid has appeared nude to two shows at Tisch. But the discussion on La Cage aux Folles had to do with the “appropriateness” of the themes in that show for a high school production and the censorship/cancellation of one particular high school’s production. That thread reminds me of this one. :D

(as an aside…I mentioned to my D, when I saw her naked on stage in a show this past fall at college…and reminded her of when she was 12 as a Kit Kat Girl in the HS production of Cabaret and how she was embarrassed as our school’s production had them wearing underwear on stage and she was of the age to just be starting to wear a bra in general and how she has come a long way, baby! :D. I did find it ironic, however, that when she played a Kit Kat Girl at a small Equity theater when she was 17, that she had on more cloth than when she played that role at age 12…again, our HS’s choice of costuming for Cabaret…when my D was in it at age 12… was off the mark, but not its choice of musical, in my view )

MommaJ · May 4, 2009, 12:27am

My D was in productions of Cabaret at both high school and performing arts camp, and in neither were the Kit Kat girls’ costumes so racy that they offended anyone–so that’s an issue with the director, not the show. (In fact, at our high school, the parent group produces the shows and pays for and arranges the costumes, so there’s no way anything as over the top as what I’ve seen described in this thread would have gotten by.) But I thought that neither of those productions was particularly successful. I feel Cabaret is an unique show that has complex characters and needs subtle and nuanced performances beyond the capabilities of most high schoolers. So I’d recommend avoiding it for that reason alone. It’s also not a particularly big draw, and, as many have mentioned, with school budgets squeezed now more than ever, the box office has to support the shows.

For what it’s worth, D’s school just did Disney’s Beauty and the Beast, which was great fun for the students and broke all box office records by a huge margin, filling the coffers for next year very nicely. Last year they had great success with the school version of Les Miserables. Very different shows, very different experiences for the students, both well suited to high school acting, singing and dancing capabilities.

To add to the choreography discussion, our program hires an outside choreographer who must devise dances (as well as fight scenes) that comport with both the students’ abilities and the size and configuration of the stage and sets. He is very musical theater savvy, having danced in Broadway shows himself, and manages to stay true to the style and spirit of the originals even though many of the ensemble members have no dance training at all.

rocket6louise · May 4, 2009, 12:28am

As someone who has done a great deal of theatre, i get very upset when people put down shows just because they are controversial.
Two summers ago, i was priviledged enough to get to do Cabaret at a local theatre. Most of the cast were high school or college kids. Our Kit Kat girls wore little more than bras and panties and i saw no problem with it. I found it tasteful. Many of our patrons were extremely offended.
I’ve seen shows(Rocky Horror) where people are naked on stage and was no offended. Anytime someone is offended i feel they are simply uncomfortable and feel a need to make it into a whole to do, instead of just dealing with it.
it’s art. Believe me, most of the raunchy stuff happens back stage

showmom858 · May 4, 2009, 12:42am

My D is in the ensemble of Rent here in SoCal. It is the first full production of Rent being done by a youth theatre. My D is 17 and is part of the ensemble. The theatre company she is doing this with has both youth and adult actors (equity and non equity) and doesn’t shy away from shows that are controversial.

I just saw a video of their Seasons of Love and it is already phenomenal! We have exposed both of our Ds 9 (17 and 14) to a lot of theatre from a very young age.

mimk6 · May 4, 2009, 1:42am

I think I would break it down between public and private schools. Since public schools (including the actual buildings shows are performed in) are paid for by all taxpayers, I think shows should not exceed the bounds that most taxpayers would be comfortable with. At a private school, where parents are directly paying that school, I think, again, that plays should be something all parents who are paying customers would be comfortable having their kids perform in or watching. These kids are minors, not adults. If you put on a play that pushes the boundaries, some parents are going to forbid their kids from participating or attending. I don’t think kids – or parents – should be put in that position at the high school level. I do think high school productions should be events that all family members can attend. Basically, I think that an attitude of respect should exist. There is always going to be a range of comfort level with what is appropriate at the high school level and equal access to programs is important. If you put on plays that are too uncomfortable for some students or their families, there isn’t equal access to the theater program. I think schools should be inclusive and accommodate everyone and that those people who need or want plays that are more daring should look to youth theater productions, summer programs and eventually college for those experiences.

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 2:17am

^^Well, I still am unclear as to your criteria for selection. You say that the shows “should not exceed the bounds that most taxpayers would be comfortable with.” What are those bounds? And yes, I am talking of public school. My own kids, as well as myself, attended public school. What is your criteria for “comfort level”? What pushes “the boundaries” exactly? One person’s comfort level is not another. What is daring to you?

Should a play like Cabaret not be put on? It depicts a historical period with relationship themes, Nazis and cabaret life of that era. What about Grease? Some would say that depicts teen sexual themes. Some would find it extremely mild and fluffy. Who decides comfort level anyway? Someone might be put off by the rape scene in West Side Story. Should that be out? What one person finds daring, another would not. What about A Chorus Line? How about Bat Boy? Yes? No? What about Into the Woods? There are themes in that show that are underlying. What about Little Shop of Horrors? Ok? Not? Audrey is an abused woman. Also, there is murder. What about Sweeney Todd? Murder…eating people. Even Oliver has a murder scene and depicts an abused woman. How about The Crucible? Witchcraft OK? Is Laramie Project OK? It is such an important topic for young people based on a REAL story. What about Parade? (anti-Semitism and racism) Jekyll and Hyde? Is Jesus Christ Superstar or Godspell or Joseph…Dreamcoat all right? They have religious themes. How about A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum? (some risque costumed girls in that one) What about Hair and its dealing with race, anti-war and other social issues? Do you just approve of musicals where girl meets boy or can any social issues be explored? Is Show Boat OK? Tommy ? (drugs) How about Pippin? Urinetown? What is your opinion of comfort on Avenue Q (there is now a high school edition of that show)?

I would be very interested in your input as to which shows are OK and which are not. Which are “comfortable”? Which are “daring”?

DonnaL · May 4, 2009, 3:04am

For anyone who’s interested (as I was), this is the link to the old thread that discussed – among many other things – a production of La Cage aux Folles: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/390689-censorship-closed-minds-do-not-always-prevail.html?highlight=La+Cage+aux+Folles[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/390689-censorship-closed-minds-do-not-always-prevail.html?highlight=La+Cage+aux+Folles</a>

Fascinating thread (it precedes my joining the boards, or I probably would have chimed in). I just read all 13 pages!

mimk6 · May 4, 2009, 3:24am

Soozie, honestly, I think the answer might be different between communities and schools. An urban New York school might have a different culture and comfort level than a school in the Bible Belt. I would imagine that a principal would have a pretty good handle (or should) on the population that is served that his/her school.

That said, I think a good rule of thumb is what I stated earlier – family members, both old and young, should be able to attend without it being an issue. I’ve never heard of someone having objections to Godspell or Joseph (and Godspell was done at my primarily Jewish high school without a single voice of objection,) so, unless there was an outcry of sorts, I imagine it would be okay.

I’ll answer you. I don’t think Cabaret is appropriate. As I stated earlier, I only recently allowed my 14 year old son to see the film and, lest you think I’m completely prudish, I have on a case by case basis allowed him to see some R rated movies. While I have never seen the play, assuming it is close to the film, then I wouldn’t think it a play that younger siblings should necessarily attend. I think A Chorus Line is inappropriate – quite a bit of strong language peppered throughout and explicit lyrics about changes during puberty, etc. Our school did Grease last year. Personally, I hate Grease, not for the sexuality, but because of the message that the way to get a guy is to reinvent yourself into someone you’re not. I still think everyone can see it although I always explained to my kids just why the message is so bad. We did Little Shop this year. The drama teacher did warn parents at the beginning that they might want to shield kids at a few points and that a certain colored light would flash at that point. I don’t know Bat Boy and haven’t seen Into the Woods. Haven’t seen Parade, have read the Crucible which is quite intense but fewer kids tend to attend the non-musical plays. If it’s well done, it’s very scary. Already expressed my thoughts on Laramie Project in earlier posts. Don’t know Jekyll and Hide. The rest of the plays you mentioned aren’t ones I’m familiar enough with to comment on. I’d assume a drama teacher would be familiar enough to make judgements and to discuss anything questionable with the principal. Probably a good rule of thumb, if a play seemed controversial, would be to approach the parents in leadership or parent organization or the governing body of the school that usually includes faculty, parents and students and get feedback from them. At many schools, including ours, parents actively support the performing arts programs, so it’s not out of line to take their concerns into consideration.

I don’t really think the point is what I think is appropriate or inappropriate. I think the point is that I am not some bizarre exception to the rule and I know that from talking with other parents. There are lots of folks like me out there who want to bring grandparents and siblings to productions and who would have issues with some of the productions you listed. At our school we have an enormously diverse population - every ethnicity you can imagine, lots of different languages spoken at home, lots of different religions. There is just no reason, in my opinion, for a high school that has students and families who may be from very strict Muslim or Christian or Jewish backgrounds – or some other faith – to make the school play some kind of hill to die on between parents and their kids or between parents and the school. In a school filled with that kind of diversity, I think sensitivity to others who might have issues about this type of thing is really important.

pageturner · May 4, 2009, 7:26am

Wow, I just discovered this “quote” thing, and I’m really using it on this post!

Soozie, I’m fully aware of the implied and actual issues in the shows you have mentioned. It’s really not a matter of what I am personally for or against. For my own kids, I’ve taken them to see a bunch of Sondheim shows, Rent, Cabaret, even Avenue Q when they were in middle school. I’m getting the feeling that you think I am some sort of zealot about this. Nope.

My original point is that there is plenty of time in these kids lives to do these shows (I’m calling them “controversial” as shorthand). Why do we feel they must be done in a high school? They can “experience” it in community theater, or college. These kids will, in all likelihood, only be in four high school shows (at the most). They can’t possibly “experience” every “message” in high school.

My second point is that high school shows have a specific purpose: teaching kids about theater. Can this not be done by presenting shows they would want their grandmother to see?

Like it or not, “censorship” exists in public schools. Web sites are blocked, dress codes prevail, language is curtailed, certain books and magazines are not ever going to be in a school library, teachers cannot openly discuss religion (unless in a educational context) or their personal political viewpoints. That’s reality.

My third point is the mixed message we send to these kids. We now allow lousy language and skimpy dressing in school? Come on, it’s SCHOOL! These are kids! Their emotions are in a jumble enough as it is! Why do we feel we need to add to this to make it even more complicated for them?

Enough. I have to go teach them now. More on this later.

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 9:30am

Pageturner, I’m not saying that high school kids will or need to “experience every ‘message’ in high school” or that certain shows “must” be done in high school. However, I don’t see why there is a need to limit themes or shows in high school in the way you are describing, nor do I see where you draw this imaginary line of which shows are “controversial” or “daring” or “acceptable” and which are not.

Which shows do you even feel ARE “controversial”? And why are they controversial or unacceptable for high school kids? For example, are you OK with Laramie Project? It is about a real life story that deals with tolerance. (even West Side Story deals with tolerance…is that show OK?) It seems extremely appropriate to me for high school kids to learn about and portray such issues and events. What about The Crucible or RENT which also deal with tolerance too? Don’t high school students read about such themes in literature or history classes? What criteria would you use to determine “acceptable” for high school age kids? And does this just apply to theater or also to which books will be read?

You say that high school shows have a specific purpose: “teaching kids about theater.” I beg to differ. The objectives/goals in theater and performing arts go beyond simply learning theater “skills”. For example, theater teaches collaboration and cooperation. Theater teaches self confidence getting up in front of an audience. Theater also is exposure to great theater musicals and plays which are studied for their content, just like the content in literature. another art form in which students learn what it means to be a human being in various settings where thoughts and feelings can be safely explored and experienced. Through role-playing, scriptwriting, and developing characters in particular circumstances, students create situations and actions that allow them to make sense of their world and to understand those who are different from them…similar to literature objectives. Theater can teach oral expression. Theater allows students to take an idea and create a presentation of that idea. Theater allows students to relate to other cultures, times, and places (like history curriculum does). So, doing theater in high school goes beyond simply theater “skills” or “learning about theater.”

As far as the point about “lousy language”…I think it is different for students to use foul language in their every day usage and for it to be part of a script. (should all books at school that have any curse words in them be removed?) Further, many school level productions omit certain curse words from plays, but the plays can still be put on. As far as skimpy dress? I feel a costume is different than what one wears to school. But even with costumes, a school can adapt the costume to not be overly revealing. As I wrote, the costumes for the Kit Kat Girls in our HS’s production of Cabaret were not appropriate because they were primarily sexy underwear and the girls were barely clothed, whereas even professional productions of Cabaret have had on more cloth than our HS had in its costuming. When Hair was put on at my D’s theater camp, nobody appeared naked. I don’t feel any costume I saw in any of the hundreds of shows they have done have been inappropriate at all.

I don’t get what you mean by including shows that make it more “complicated” for teenagers. I don’t see which shows are not OK for them. Can you mention which ones you feel are not OK and why they are not? What would the criteria be and who decides that criteria?

PS…I did not know you are a teacher. I am a former teacher myself and also directed musicals at our elementary school.

Hunt · May 4, 2009, 9:49am

I think one problem here is just talking about what is appropriate for “high school kids,” as if high school kids (and their families) are the same from one community to another. They really aren’t. For example, my understanding is that there has been a great deal of resistance to doing any shows with religious themes (like Godspell) at my kids’ high school. I can’t really say that I think the school should go ahead and do it anyway. On the other hand, I was interested to hear that a drama sponsor at the school said that the problem with Cabaret for this school was not the skimpy costumes, but the presence of the theme of abortion. I thought that was odd, but that’s the perception there.

mimk6 · May 4, 2009, 9:49am

West Side Story is fiction. Laramie Project is not. That makes a big difference.

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 9:57am

RE: post #58…And that is what is so powerful about Laramie Project. It is a real story and a historical event that is portrayed via a theater medium, though equally could be studied in a social studies class.

soozievt · May 4, 2009, 10:00am

Hunt…interesting about the reason why Cabaret was not OK at your school due to there is a depiction of a character who has an abortion. And here lies one issue for me…a play doesn’t promote an issue, such as abortion, or condone it. A play portrays issues one may even disagree with. Should students not be exposed to issues that they either disagree with or go against their moral fiber? I see murders in plays but don’t feel that the plays condone murder. If I see a character in a play who has an abortion, I don’t conclude that abortions are acceptable to all people or are being promoted by the play. I can watch The Crucible and not believe in witchcraft either. My kid was in that play and also in Jesus Christ Superstar and she does not worship Jesus and is Jewish in fact. She has worn a Swatiska on stage as well. She has portrayed prostitutes on stage too. She recently had a role as a 12 year old in a show where the 12 year old was turning tricks with men (based on some real life news stories in fact). She does not condone prostitution and neither do we, but it was an important issue to portray…exploitation of children.

Cabaret

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