Cabaret

Parent Cafe
101

<p>I’ll bite on the list. I can only answer with respect to which ones I would allow in our suburban high school. I think that there would be other schools that would draw the line differently, and that’s reasonable.</p>

<p>A number of these shows (like The Laramie Project) I don’t know enough about to judge. But:</p>

<p>Grease–would probably only allow the school version
A Chorus Line==would require cuts
Cabaret–would allow, but costumes would have to pass some review
Jesus Christ Superstar–would discourage but not preclude
Godspell–ditto
Hair–maybe, if there’s a school version?
RENT–school version only
Avenue Q–OK if there’s a school version
The Producers–would not do, although I like the show. Grandmas who survived the Holocaust are a minority, but they get some extra consideration
Into the Woods–wouldn’t do, but just because I hate it
Chicago–same as for Cabaret</p>

<p>Note: my daughter’s dream is to convince her school to do either Cabaret or Chicago. I don’t think it’s too likely, but not totally impossible.</p>

102

<p>West Side Story was one of my all-time favorite movies. I saw it so many times as a kid and as an adult. But I never thought that Anita was actually raped. His clothes are on and so are hers. It’s certainly meant to imply that kind of threat and might have happened had Doc not intervened, but an actual rape is not in the film version. Pageturner, I think your list of criteria is perfect.</p>

103

<p>Wish someone had done costume review for our school… then we wouldn’t even have had this post :)</p>

104

<p>My D’s high school did Into the Woods, Urinetown, Batboy, and Jekyll & Hyde during her junior and senior year. I never even thought about any of them as being controversial for high school productions. I’m learning a lot here.</p>

105

<p>From what I can recall, between our high school, and a couple of neighboring high schools, the following have been done:
The Laramie Project (us)
Urinetown
Into the Woods (us)
Chicago (us)
Little Shop of Horrors (us)
Sweeney Todd
Godspell
West Side Story
Pippin (us)
Grease (us)
The Diary of Anne Frank</p>

<p>Like I said, these productions were either done at our high school, or other community high schools, that are an easy 10-15 minute drive from our high school.</p>

106

<p>Into the Woods and Sweeny Todd controversial? Those are some of the most tame my HS has done! I suppose Little Shop of Horrors is raunchy too because it involves violence… Wow some people need to loosen up a little</p>

107

<p>Thanks, Mim. I think we are best CC friends now!</p>

<p>But, to all, now I will bid this topic adieu…I’ve said my piece. We’ll probably never change each others minds, but we will find like-minded people. Which is pretty good, I think.</p>

108

<p>SmallCollegesFTW - I don’t know about controversial, and although I haven’t seen Sweeny Todd, like I said earlier, Into The Woods is very, very dark. I think there are many younger children that would be disturbed by it, specifically the second half. So if your criteria is that a show needs to be appropriate for an eight-year old, I don’t know if Into The Woods would be, for all eight-year olds.</p>

109

<p>Hunt, what shows has your school done? </p>

<p>While it may be true that the film version of WSS did not include an actual rape, (it was 1961, after all), the stage version definitely has a physical and sexual assault included in the book, and it was included in the original Broadway production. There is no doubt that the assault is a rape. In the film, the nature of the assault is more oblique.</p>

<p>intparent, it’s been an interesting discussion so don’t wish it away. :slight_smile: Although, for other reasons, I, too, wish that the costume decisions hadn’t become the focal point of peoples’ impressions of your school’s production.</p>

<p>cartera, I agree with you. I have definitely heard of some districts having problems with certain productions, including the one in the infamous La Cage discussion, but I guess I wasn’t aware that there would be so many. It baffles me that there are so many people out there who actually protest and complain about something like this. I’m happy that I have never had to live in a district like that and thankful that my kids were exposed to all types of theatre opportunities.</p>

110

<p>Hunt,
Thank you for giving your opinion about some of those shows. </p>

<p>MimK6,
I have seen the stage version of WSS several times and my own daughter played Anita and I explained how it is typically staged and while their clothing is on, it is highly suggestive of a rape with the boy lifted over the girl and thrust on top of her for one reason only. I personally have no problem with it but mentioned it only because I think many would OK WSS for their HS production and yet it truly does depict violence, intolerance, and rape, but it seems some would not permit other musicals that deal with similar issues. </p>

<p>intparent…I’m glad you brought this up. Again, our HS’s production of Cabaret had the same issue of inappropriate costumes which was a shame as the criticism leveled at the production centered on all the attention garnered by those girls’ outfits and lack of clothing, when the production itself was well done and the production values are good ones for a HS in my view. So, it is a good example of where the themes can be depicted if care is put into a HS level show to costume it appropriately. </p>

<p>Cartera…re post 104…I agree with you. I don’t see those shows as “controversial” and that is why I brought up the question of what is exactly “controversial” or “daring” or “unacceptable” about those shows and some others I had listed that some who posted would keep out of high schools. I can’t understand what is wrong with those shows. </p>

<p>Like AlwaysAMom, I am glad that our community supports a variety of shows and I am very glad that both my girls attended performing arts camps that allowed all the shows I listed (and many more) for youth. The only problem I am aware of locally was the costume debacle with Cabaret and even I thought those costumes went too far and it did affect my then 12 year old but I never complained as I was grateful they had cast her as she was in seventh grade and everyone else was in high school and so I just bought her short midriff leotard top to wear in lieu of the sexy bra they wanted her to wear and she felt uncomfortable with it given her age and nobody said anything about our change of little midriff short bra top. I didn’t expect the show to accommodate a 12 year old in this way but honestly the costumes themselves were over the top and detracted from the show and truly were not even the type of lingerie a cabaret girl in that era would have worn. I’ve seen Cabaret at my D’s theater camps and there are tasteful sexy outfits that are not underwear for this show. Same with Chicago. </p>

<p>By the way, there is a school version of Avenue Q. </p>

<p>Hair doesn’t have a school version but in my view, the only adaptation that would need changing for a high school is to eliminate the nudity. I really think the themes of this show are important. I saw this show when I was a kid and we took my D’s birthday party to see a production of Hair as well in high school. I expect my kids to explore such issues in English and History classes and yes, in their theater experiences in high school as well. I want my kids to be exposed to all these shows. </p>

<p>Hunt, it is interesting what you say about The Producers because my kids’ grandparents have seen it on Broadway and enjoyed it a lot. Being Jewish, they don’t think Nazis are a laughing matter but this show is a hilarious caricature and shows how tasteless that theme is to the point of being funny. </p>

<p>In any case, I would hope that any vocal minority doesn’t keep plays and musicals out of high schools. If the entire community feels that way, I guess the school needs to stand up and listen. But I’d hate to see a school feel that it needs to play it “safe” to keep to kiddie themes that do not provoke thought about issues just in case. I’d rather a school try to explore a wide variety of material in the arts for the many learning experiences that can abound. I’d hope a school could stand up for what is educational rather than bowing to a few who may make waves. Because…where does that end really? Outlawing books? Certain topics? Certain works of art? I feel my kids have been enriched by all the theater they have seen since they were very very young and I’d hope that for kids in my community who only know shows like Wizard of Oz and Guys and Dolls.</p>

111

<p>

</p>

<p>OK kids, let’s all sing along:</p>

<p>"Sodomy
Fellatio
Cunnilingus
Pederasty</p>

<p>Father, why do these words sound so nasty?</p>

<p>Masturbation
Can be fun
Join the holy orgy
Kama Sutra
Everyone!"
:smiley: :D</p>

112

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<p>There’s a difference, in my mind, between somebody who is Jewish and somebody who actually lost family members to the Nazis. Some people, quite reasonably, will never, ever find anything about Nazis to be funny. I think one problem is that there is a difference between giving in to a “vocal minority” and taking into consideration the feelings of a sensitive minority. For example, if the school has a lot of Native American students, it would probably be insensitive to return “I’m an Indian, Too” to Annie Get Your Gun. You might think twice about the original lyrics to some of the songs in Showboat. These decisions are all hard, and it’s certainly possible to overdo it, but I think that’s true in both directions. While I agree that students, even in high school, should be exposed to difficult and controversial issues, and should read difficult and challenging works, we’re talking here about the (typically) annual school musical, involving the participation of large numbers of students and audiences from families and the community. I don’t think the primary role of that event is to challenge the thinking of people.</p>

<p>Note: the reason I mentioned “Life of Brian” (which is a movie) was that I was trying to think of something that could not be made un-offensive to me, no matter how much it’s intended to be satirical. I can’t help being offended by a comic crucifixion scene.</p>

113

<p>Interesting article on the production of “The Producers” in Israel. There were opinions expressed that it would be a bit much for actual survivors. </p>

<p>[BBC</a> NEWS | Middle East | Hitler musical big hit in Israel](<a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4883784.stm]BBC”>BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hitler musical big hit in Israel)</p>

114

<p>OT, but the Tony nominations came out today. All three boys were jointly nominated for Billy Elliot…that makes me happy. Can’t wait to see it!</p>

115

<p>That is interesting [about Producers in Israel]. Of course, as a professional production, nobody has to be in it, and nobody has to see it. While nobody “has” to be in or see a high school production, it’s not a trivial thing to do a show that would exclude people.</p>

<p>Somebody asked what shows have been done at my kids’ school: In past years they’ve done Fiddler, My Fair Lady, Jekyll & Hide, others I don’t recall. This year they did The Man Who Came to Dinner (play) and Steven Schwartz’ The Baker’s Wife (musical). The musical had some mildly adult themes, but I’m not aware of any complaints. (My daughter was in it, and complained that the songs weren’t very good, but that’s a different story). Other schools in our county have done many of the “controversial” shows, including RENT (school version). I’ve never heard of much controversy about any of them, but I now know that behind the scenes there are some shows that just don’t get picked for various reasons, some having to do with controversy, some to do with ethnic casting, and others because there is too much dancing or too many difficult male parts. The big question around here is which school or schools will do Hairspray first.</p>

116

<p>Hunt, I agree that there is a difference from merely being Jewish to having survived the concentration camps or being someone who lost family members to Nazis. I imagine there would be some who might not be able to stand seeing The Producers. Thank you, Cartera, for that interesting article and it shows that not many protested this musical in Israel and it points out a point I was trying to say about how Hitler is mocked. It is a caricature. The show is a hit there. But obviously there will be others who find it offensive. </p>

<p>I really believe that there will be some who are offended by a myriad of musicals or plays and it would be hard to please everyone. </p>

<p>Hunt, I don’t think the objective of the musical or play should be to challenge the thinking of people. But by the same token, I don’t see much wrong with hardly any musicals, such as the ones I mentioned. I’m not interested in “controversy” or “daring” and so on. I think these are plays and musicals worth putting on. I am not sure where the line is drawn because I believe that you may get some who complain about almost any work. And to avoid certain shows because someone may complain is not how I’d want a school to pick a show. They need to be sensitive to the community of course. But I truly can’t find much wrong with most of the shows I mentioned. My concern is that a LOT of good works would be cut out if one just sticks to “girl meets boy” or the fluffiest of themes. I think a member or two here said they would cut out the entire list I posted (albeit the members were not familiar with each show I listed in post #81). And so that concerns me…as for example, I cannot understand why Footloose, Nine, Chicago, The Laramie Project, Urinetown, RENT, or Cabaret are not OK for high school students. RENT and Chicago were recently hugely popular musical movies that a great many of these students likely watched and so I don’t get why they could not perform them as well. I recall my kids traveling with their HS music dept. to Boston to see Chicago in fact. If the school can take them to see a musical like that, why can’t the kids BE in it?</p>

117

<p>I cross posted with Hunt but you mention that your school put on Jekyll and Hyde. I know that musical as my D played Lucy in it when she was 16 at her theater camp. That is a show I listed in post 81 and some members seemed to indicate that none of those shows would be OK for HS. And this is what I would not understand. I see nothing wrong with that musical for HS. I am worried how many musicals some really want to cut out. It sounds like a LOT.</p>

118

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<p>I pondered that for a while after I saw Hairspray for the first time. Which area high schools, if any, could do Hairspray? That could be used by the state as a diversity litmus test - could you do Hairspray?</p>

119

<p>I think Hairspray would be another great musical for a high school to put on! Like RENT, it became a movie as well, and many of these kids have seen these films. Both musicals involve tolerance themes too (so does West Side Story for that matter). Our HS could not do Hairspray as unfortunately, the school population is not ethnically diverse. But I hope many high schools can put this musical on when the rights come out.</p>

120

<p>Why do we think that kids leaving HS have to be ready for Broadway? Don’t we learn in steps? So, in Middle School, we do skits, some simple plays, and in HS, we go a bit further, and incorporate drama, musicals, comedy, etc., in order to experience a bit more. In college, they learn more and expand more, as they mature. And mature is the key word here. Do they need to experience rape, etc., at age 14 in order to be a great actress at 25? I remember the way Brook Shields’ mother was scourged for allowing her daughter to perform nude at such a young age. I can’t imagine any parent allowing that! And if my D were to perform nude on stage, I would ask her to use a pseudonym, and certainly would not go to “see” her. And I come from a long history of theater people - my mother performed professionally, I did, and D did, as well. I see no reason to titillate some of the people who come to those productions strictly for their prurient gratification. I, for one, go to the theater to excape from reality, to enjoy and have fun, to transport myself into another world and life. I do not need to be in the middle of sax scene in order to experience the terror, pain, etc. It is the truly brillinat thespian who makes you experience without just slapping you in the face with it. Why are Hitchcock’s movies still revered without all of today’s blood, guts, and gore? Because they were artistic - the music, the acting, the scenes, everything worked to create that tension, foreboding, and terror. He didn’t tell you what to feel - he directed you to it and through it. That is great art - letting the audience react and experience the work on its own. The other is just telling the audience it has no intelligence or ability to understand what the playwright meant. The truly great works of art let us experience them through exceptional talent, and the purely prurient and average works tell the audience what it has to see, with no involvement of the person’s imagination. That is what theater is about - imagination and stirring a person’s creative juices - bringing us back to our childhood where we could play make-believe. Truly great theater transports us to the scene, act and play - into that world. It is NOT just watching it, but experiencing it, with each person “seeing” it and “living” it in context of his/her own experiences.</p>