<p>Kluge, do you have the numbers on California government revenues from 1995- 2005?</p>
<p>I would love to know how much California has been getting from the peoperty tax from 1995-2005 and if the numbers are broken down between residential and commercial. Do you have those?</p>
<p>Barron’s - no, I’m injecting facts into the discussion, which you’re choosing to ignore. Everyone thinks they’re paying more and getting less than is actually the case - it’s just natural to do so. Try this for an exercise some time: try to think about the benefit you are personally receiving from government-funded programs every minute of the day. Start with: Breathing air that’s cleaner than it was 40 years ago, despite the growth in population, industries, and average miles traveled per person per day, and keep counting from there. If you’re honest with yourself, I think you’ll be surprised at how much “government assistance” you receive in your day-to-day life in return for the taxes you pay.</p>
<p>Sorry, dstark, I don’t have that info. All I’ve got is an estimate of $20Billion in '98-99. You do bring up a good point, if only by inference: since Prop. 13 was supposed to keep Granny from getting taxed out of her ancestral home, why does it apply to commercial property?</p>
<p>Whatever I use is far less than anyone actually using government benefit programs. Yes we all benefit from cleaner air, etc. Goody. At least I am paying for it. To bring all that into the discussion is mere obfuscation.</p>
<p>Government benefit programs like the SEC and FDIC, which safeguard your investments? Sounds like you have what I call “fiscal myopia” - an inability to see any further than your own pocketbook. I don’t know what kind of business or investments you’re involved in, but if I did I bet I could produce a pretty good list of government (i.e. tax-supported) programs designed to benefit you personally (and not those you refer to as being from “the hood.”) Take those blinders off - you may be surprised at what you can see if you are willing to look.</p>
<p>Most of my investments are in real estate. Yes there are nice tax advantages to owning real estate however I still pay substantial, to me, sums each year to the Federal Treasury. I also pay property taxes on my investments. I do provide well priced quality rental housing that is maintained beyond most standards for such housing.</p>
<p>Well, Barrons, every property you own is protected by fire and police agencies. In fact, simply by owning multiple properties you are receiving multiple benefit from all of those generally beneficial services. Taxpayer money that goes into building roads, parks, schools, etc in the vicinity of your rental property increases its value - and you arent required to reimburse the government for that increase. A freeway is built, which provides the infrastructure that allows a business park to be built - employees come to the area, need housing, vacancies decline, rents go up, property values rise, you profit. If the taxpayers stopped funding infrastructure improvements, police, schools and other services in the vicinity of your property its value would plummet. Real estate rents and value are largely driven by the level and quality of government services - particularly schools. You were alerted to possible flood risks before buying because of the taxpayer funded flood plain maps. Got levees? Every property thats kept dry by a levee or other flood control project (and its owners) benefits. You receive a benefit for each and every property you own. Want more specific benefits? As a landlord, you probably have to evict people every once in a while. The court system and local law enforcement do that for you for a nominal fee which is a fraction of the actual cost - the balance of which is subsidized by the taxpayers. If you have Section 8 tenants that program is designed to guarantee you a steady and reliable income stream - underwritten by the taxpayers. And as you know, once you bought real estate you were allowed to deduct a phantom sum from your income tax return for depreciation even though your property has actually increased in value over time; by utilizing 1031/Starker exchanges you have the ability to build an estate of substantial value without ever paying any tax on the increase in that value, while pulling cash out as you go along. The people in the hood dont get to do that. Youre a smart person - you figured all that out and thats why you invested as you did. But after receiving all that benefit, and working all those angles - entirely legally - youre still convinced that its those losers back in the hood who are getting a free ride from the government.</p>
<p>I dont mean to be picking on you, Barrons. Everyone who is in business (as I am) is on the receiving end of more taxpayer funded benefits than you can list in one short sitting. Its just that theyre all taken for granted, and discounted. Its human nature to look at whatever the other guy is getting and think He doesnt deserve that. Im getting nothing. - but its just not true. Generally speaking, the more you have and the more you make, the more benefits youre receiving.</p>
<p>The tax laws to benefit real estate also help create an adequate supply that the public uses and benefits from. Where would people live if it were not for those who build and own property? I presume my property taxes pay for the service provided by the local police and fire including evictions (not yet used) as my water and sewer and electric and gas bills pay for those items, etc. </p>
<p>Hopefully those properties will prevent me from being a drain on the public purse when I move into my dotage.</p>
<p>That’s all true. 
I didn’t say it was a bad thing - like I said, I’m a local public official myself, and vote for this stuff all the time, because I think it does benefit society. My only beef is with people who think all the goodies are going to *other people<a href=“for%20other%20reasons%20that%20at%20least%20some%20people%20think%20are%20also%20good%20for%20society”>/i</a> and insist that they’re not getting their fair share, or paying more than their fair share. Chances are, the bigger your piece of the pie, the more taxpayer frosting you’ve got on top!</p>
<p>If a person owns an estate in California that they owned for thirty years, what happens to the real property tax when they die and it is inherited by someone else? Should real property tax breaks like prop 13 go to businesses and second family homes? Is it fair to place the cost of fire, police, parks and streets disproportionately onto the shoulders of new home owners? </p>
<p>When does the Governor get back from his junket…how many other trips has he made in the past two years?</p>