<p>As the Op- here is some background on AP at D/S school: Any student who wants to take an AP class must meet prerequisites to include success in prior classes at the honors level and teacher recommendation. The AP courses our kids have taken are as extremely rigorous-several faculty are AP readers.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine the College Board invisions giving schools the ability to remove AP designations “after the fact”. AP Audits I thought were started to ensure some level of parity and rigor across the country. Imagine trying to get kids who are not sure they are up to the work load of AP to actually take a course knowing the AP designation can be removed if the school implements a new policy after the year begins. </p>
<p>When our kids were in public school, the fees for AP exams were greatly reduced ( and this was not an “underserved” school. All kids at private school, as Wreckid99, pay $84 per exam. School’s pollicy does not address what about the kids who might not pass the teacher’s final exam, but score at least a 3 on the actual exam.</p>
<p>I am planning to post this issue on one of the AP list serves this evening and see what others in the AP community think.</p>
<p>This policy reeks of elitism. It is a way for this school to protect high GPA and AP pass rates. I agree with GeorgiaTwins that it also keeps kids who might be on the fence about trying an AP out. For certain privileged students that is just the way they want it. NO competition from potential outliers so that the deserving can protect their precious GPA and class ranking. Now ask yourself who is most likely to be confidently taking AP classes in schools with these policies?</p>
<p>It sounds to me that this school is trying to avoid criticism for poor AP teaching. If a kid doesn’t do well, presto, it wasn’t an AP course after all!</p>
<p>I agree that it is elitist, but in a good way. Only elite students who are agreeeing to aproach the course seriously & are prepared to study at a true college level are invited. Anyone looking for a quick GPA bump need not apply.</p>
<p>I don’t see how the policy covers for poor teaching. Has there been a case where the entire class bombed? It really seems to be designed to keep the kids in study mode even after the AP CB exam has been administered so no goofing off can occur without penalty.</p>
<p>The penalty should be a low grade in the class and a low score on the AP test. The fact that a student didn’t study doesn’t make the course any less an AP course–it’s the curriculum that determines that.</p>
<p>What I find interesting is that at least at many of the schools my S applied to, they didn’t want the weighted GPA from all of his honors/AP classes. So it really didn’t matter GPA-wise whether he got a “bump” or not. It just upped the rigor of classes he chose to take in his high school.</p>
<p>That’s a good point, Hunt. And the GPA weighting wouldn’t do much for a really low grade. I think the school would prefer to set a strict policy up front, though. Less fighting about grades all year long, I’d imagine. Much easier to pull the designation right as summer begins & hope the problem family goes away.</p>
<p>It seem, Madison, that most high schools that rank use wieghted GPAs, though. So the benefit is more geared to a rank advantage.</p>
<p>Here is something similar being done this year for the first time at my kids private school. The plan is to extend this to other classes, either next year or after more of a trial.</p>
<p>It is a private school with about 65 students in a grade, and for honors or ap you need to apply to be placed in that class. Most classes only have one section of honors/ap with 12-15 students, so you can see there are several who would like to take that level class and aren’t able to for space or other scheduling reasons. None of the classes are weighted and the school doesn’t rank.</p>
<p>This year they are doing a trial for Chem. Out of the 4 sections of Chem, instead of having one honors, they are allowing any student to persue an “honors option.” To get the honors option, a student has to do extra work and work to a higher level throughout the year. Each term they need to achieve a minimum level of extra points to still be in contention. At the end of the year, after the final, it will be determined if their transcript will say “Chemistry” or “Honors Chemistry.” For those students who did some of the extra work but didn’t get to the honors level, they will get some grade boost for that.</p>
<p>So I see this as being similar to the risk of having the AP desgination removed from the transcript if the kid fails the final. It sounds like there might be a senioritis issue at the school also with kids not putting the effort in after the AP test is over. I would hope the possiblility of failing the final would be of greater concern than having the AP designation removed. Since it also sounds like the “teacher constructed finals” have some issues, I wonder if the teacher and the other tests throughout the year are well regared?</p>
<p>Since the AP designation is removed at the end of the year, for Seniors this wouldn’t be as big a problem as it would be for Freshman, Sophomores or Juniors. </p>
<p>Hypothetically, if a student doesn’t pass the teacher’s final and ends up with say a B- for the class, the transcript would not reflect that a rigourous class was taken, and assume that the grade was recieved in a non-AP class. That same child may very well have been able to pull off an A or A- in a non AP class. It just sounds unfair.</p>
<p>but are kids really failing the final in high numbers? And these are kids who did ok in the class the remainder of the year? Something doesn’t mesh, is the final from this teacher way out of line with how the rest of the class was taught?</p>
<p>The school has an issue and chooses this way to deal with it. It might not be the most fair, and it does sound like a scare tactic, but the big issue is what is the root of the problem they are trying to address.</p>
<p>But I also think the AP shouldn’t be caring if the school chooses to go this route. Their audit was to address school over labeling classes as AP where the students are not covering the appropriate material and not prepared for the exam. There are many places with classes which are more rigorous than the ap curriculum which are not labeled “AP.”</p>
<p>Regarding AP tests. Take the test, get the score, have it reported to the college of your choice. It does not matter if you take an AP course or how well you do in one for that. </p>
<p>Know of a (public school) boy who got a 5 on the AP test and therefore was exempt from US History (AP and regular). Know another one who got a 5 on the AP Chemistry test in May and a C in his AP course the June of Senior year, he didn’t like the teacher much and knew he was at his safety… As long as the student graduates from the HS and the college accepts the student the HS policy doesn’t matter; credits are given for performance on the AP test, not HS grades, for a reason. Also, as nice as it is to have a good HS record, one’s college record replaces that for future jobs/schooling. </p>
<p>Okay to question and be upset but nice to know it won’t matter to you in a few years when you are no longer involved with the HS. Pursue this if you feel it will benefit others and make a difference, otherwise ignore it and be glad to be done with the HS (I’m finally learning to ignore many of the injustices I have no control over).</p>
<p>I think the problem is: if they change the AP designation/name of the course (after the fact, which is unfair, and in fact, untrue), then the student’s transcript will not show “most rigorous coursework”. Colleges like to see AP and other rigorous courses.</p>
<p>Karen Colleges-you are correct. Changing the course designation after the student has done the work is unfair and disingenuous on the part of S/D’ school. Since I know the rigor matches the AP course description and have seen the time and intensity kids have put into these courses it is very frustrating.</p>
<p>I have been trying to determine if AP/CB has “standards” they require of schools who participate in AP Programs. One of the central issues in this situation to me is the ability ( as it appears) for any school to draft it’s own rules regarding deleting AP designations. I am accustomed to organizations who provide accreditation having a certain set of standard criteria that are implemented across the board. If anyone has ideas for which portion of the CB I need to contact, please let me know. So far, 3 different “operators” for the CB have been absolutely no helpin terms of who to speak with, etc.</p>
<p>This idea that a HS could remove an AP designation is awful. This policy hurts seniors. When you apply to college in the fall of senior year, you tell colleges what classes you are taking senior year. You tell them SPECIFICALLY if you are taking AP classes or not. If this changes, you are supposed to notify the colleges. A college could even, conceivably, change its admission decision based on this.</p>
<p>As has been pointed out, this really hurts the sophomores and juniors too. A C or two for a really tough AP class is okay, even for a top college. C’s in regular classes look terrible.</p>
<p>I agree the high school is manipulating its rate of how many of their kids who take the AP classes pass the AP tests. Good grief. </p>
<p>Is the superintendent of the school district someone with academic experience/credentials and common sense? It sounds like the HS administration is not behaving logically here. I suggest that a small group of parents refer this to the superintendent or the school board. </p>
<p>Oh - I just saw that you are at a private prep school. They can do anything they want and are not accountable to any higher power. Sounds like you are stuck.</p>
<p>By the way, of course kids can take an AP test without taking a class that was designated as an AP class. Kids self study for AP tests all the time, and home schoolers take AP tests. If this private prep school refuses to allow a child to take an AP test, the child’s family should be able to find another location for the child to take the test.</p>
<p>However, it seems to me that this policy must be written somewhere, in an AP course agreement, student handbook, etc. And the report cards for the first three quarters will have the AP designation.</p>
<p>If my student were a victim of this policy, I would be sure all applications included copies of the schools policy and all report cards indicating AP course designation. I might also recalculate the GPA with the AP weighting and have that included, as well. I would have my student direct the application reader to these inclusions in the ‘Is there anything else you would like us to know?’ section.</p>
<p>MWM,
An alternate location is probably not necessary. I think the AP exam will be a done deal by the time the schools final exam is taken and graded.</p>
<p>First of all, if what I am reading is correct the College Board is asleep at the wheel.</p>
<p>If they are defending their intellectual property of the “Advanced Placement” name and its use by high schools, they should be setting the standards for the use in all situations. If they certify that the content of the instructed material and that their exam is taken, they should require that all students taking the class be given credit (as the instructors grade may indicate) for having taken an AP class. </p>
<p>Now if the school want to put its own final exam at the end to determine the grade in the AP class with a “3” as their standard for “passing” the class that is their business. However, if they fail the class they should fail the AP class and not an “Honors” class, because they were enrolled in an AP class as certified by the College Board.</p>
<p>Goaliedad, what you are reading is correct and my first three attempts at speaking with someone at the College Board have been a complete disaster. I continue to be connected with personnel who “seem” to be receptionist or operator-trained employees. I have had the same experience by contacting the AP division within the CB. All I can get from any of these three employees is that “schools are free to do whatever they like with AP designations”.</p>
<p>Taking a different tact to the problem, have you talked to your local school board regarding the school’s policy, asking their lawyers if they cleared the concept of using “Advanced Placement” branding for credit designation based upon “their own” test and whether that was within the covenant they signed to offer AP courses?</p>
<p>If nothing else, I think the CB might answer the same question asked by school district lawyers.</p>
<p>Personally, I think that the top lawyers at the CB would not like the concept of a school adding requirements to the AP class that may or may not be up to CB’s standards. Sets a dangerous precedent.</p>