Can we talk about tattoos?

Parent Cafe
181

<p>I’m one who said when my kids get tattoos, they are declaring their independence from me in all ways, including financial. We are in this college thing together. I’m giving up a lot of my money for them, I’m making sacrifices, I’ve stated my objection, and that has to be enough. Yes, because I said so, and I’m the mother. The decision on when they want to be independent is totally theirs. </p>

<p>We’ve all had the conversations that while college kids may be 18 and adults, in so many ways they cannot make mature decisions. Some can, some can’t. Mine can’t. (one just turned 18 on Sunday) They aren’t ready to smoke, drink, fly to Mexico for the weekend with boys they just met (or even boys they’ve known for a while), file taxes without my help. All legal things for them to do, just not on my watch.</p>

<p>How would I know if either got a tattoo? My kids are terrible liars. One wears the teeniest, tiniest bikinis ever made, so only has 3 places she could hide a tattoo from me, and her boobs are really small so the tattoo would be thumbprint size. The other daughter has more landscape on which to hide the tattoo, and dresses more moderately, but she’s the worst liar in the world. Neither has a desire to lie to me, I believe and hope, so it isn’t an issue. If either does get one and successfully hides it, it’s on her conscious. They actually like me. They actually want to please me. I think the guilt would get to them.</p>

<p>Do I think they will ever have tattoos? I actually do. I just want them to wait until it is a mature decision, one that they are going to live with for the rest of their lives. They don’t disagree with me. They lived through several of their friends getting tattoos when they were 16 or 18, and they (my kids) were unimpressed with them when they saw them on their own friends. Parents make decisions for their children all the time and restrict things even if the law allows them - a six year old can go to an R rated movie and some do, but mine did not. Mine did not have facebook accounts until they were 13 because I thought that was right. Not illegal to on have one at 10, just not a good idea for MY kids. Didn’t have driver’s licenses at 16 because we weren’t ready. If they want to declare independence, it’s in their hands now, their legal right to join the army or get married or get a tattoo. Whenever they are ready. If they want my financial support, they are still under my rules - no tattoos, gauges, piercings I don’t approve of, trips to Mexico, renting apartments, spending $500 on a ski weekend without us discussing it. Yes, they earn money but they want a disproportionate amount of mine not to discuss finances with me.</p>

<p>I went to high school with Mimi/Kathy Kinney. That make up is fake. She’s ACTING and can wash it off. My kids are allowed wash off tattoos. Full sleeves of them. On their arms and legs and faces if they want. Anything non-permanent. Since neither even liked face paints as kids, I’m not worried.</p>

182

<p>Personally, I’m not a fan of tattoos. I’ve probably only seen a handful that I’ve truly liked and gobs I haven’t. For someone who is older, to each their own. For teens and young adults, I think one’s personal tastes and thought process changes a lot in the coming years and its best to wait. I have the same policy with my own kids as @twoinanddone in the post above.</p>

<p>Being a frequent music festival goer, I have begun to wonder if the tattoo thing has passed its peak? At Bonnaroo this year, I noticed a lot of tattoos in various stages of removal, something I hadn’t noticed in past summers.</p>

183

<p>Wow, twoinanddone, that’s a whole lot of control you’ve got over your adult kids. I hope it works out for you. I’ve personally never been a fan of controlling my kids with money, nor of “my way or the highway” thinking. That doesn’t lead well to independent thinking. Good luck to you though. It’s not uncommon for kids ruled with an iron fist to go a little crazy once the handcuffs are removed.</p>

184

<p>

You are right, college is a big investment in money, and you do make a lot of sacrifices… but that has been true throughout their entire lives. Your kid gets a tattoo, and you decide to flush all that time and money and effort and love down the drain. Burn your relationship with them. Because no matter how logical it seems to you, no matter how absolute you feel your parental authority, if it gets to that point where they have gotten the tattoo and you respond by saying “heck with this, I’m O-U-T out” they are going to see that as an unreasonable reaction. You don’t get thrown in jail for your first speeding ticket, shoplifting doesn’t carry a death sentence, but a discrete $150 tattoo is enough for you to say “from here on, you are on your own - no college tuition, no nothing!”. That is absolutely crazy to me.</p>

<p>I come from a family with two black sheep. One undoubtedly, repeatedly worked to deserve being ostracized. The other, my sister, crossed a line with my parents, my mother in particular. To my sister it was a small line, reasonably crossed (to her, and most others). To my mother it was an unforgivable rebellion. My niece is 5 now, my mother has never seen her granddaughter. My mother has tried to make overtures, but my sister remembers that one time when my mother vastly, ridiculously, hurtfully overreacted… and now that bond is GONE.</p>

<p>At the end of the day, there are four possibilities:</p>

<p>1) Your daughters never get tattoos, because they share your tastes. In which case your threats did nothing.</p>

<p>2) Your daughters get tattoos after college (or get them and manage to conceal them), in which case they never respected your tastes, they just went along with them long enough to get what they needed out of you. Not what I would call any kind of success, financial OR parenting.</p>

<p>3) They get tattoos during college, and you find out, and you decide not to cut them off. In which case your threats did nothing.</p>

<p>4) They get tattoos during college, and you find out, and you DO cut them off. In which case they find themselves struggling financially to complete college, at best absorbing a huge financial cost, at worst dropping out and possibly scuttling their hopes of a professional career. Again, NOT what I would consider any kind of success.</p>

<p>I know you are counting on #1, or at worst #2. But if you don’t plan on the other options, you are just deluding yourself. I’ve known a lot of kids from rigid families. For most of them, the point where they get out from under mommy’s thumb, THAT’S where they get wild, whether it’s at 13 or 30. Hard drinkers, heavy tattoos, drugs, you name it. Because living under those kind of rigid controls denies them the opportunity to ease into adulthood, denies them the chance to make small mistakes without it killing them. They get their freedom and they don’t know how to handle it.</p>

<p>Or just as bad, they never escape from under mommy’s thumb and spend their whole lives shuttling between mommy’s house and their therapist.</p>

<p>Anyway, good luck with your plan. It works for some. Sort of.</p>

185

<p>

I’m going to split some hairs here. I don’t care if you like my tattoos, or tattoos in general. I really don’t. It’s a personal preference, and we all have different preferences, and that is 100% okay. I don’t like country music. No biggie.</p>

<p>I had a coworker who was a huge country music fan. Played it whenever he could. I really didn’t like being exposed daily to this thing that I dislike, but ultimately he was good at what he did and was a nice guy. Now, the worst thing I ever did based on that preference was negotiate some non-country music times in the lab. I could have worked to keep him being hired, or worked to get rid of him… but I didn’t because I would have considered that crossing the line from “having a preference” and “punishing others for not sharing it”.</p>

<p>That is the line that I protest on here. It’s a blurry line, admittedly, but it is there nonetheless. You could refuse to hire someone for having a tattoo, but that makes as little sense to me as refusing to hire someone because they like country music. That’s crossing the line. If you genuinely feel that having the tattoo would actually impact their job performance (for example, it is not concealable and would potentially alienate clients during required interactions) then that is a different matter… if it is really for that reason and not just because you just don’t like tattoos. But for most people with tattoos, it simply won’t impact their work, and that makes this kind of prejudice against people with tattoos such an issue with me.</p>

<p>And PG, again, I am not trying to single you out here - I am just responding to someone who is actually participating in the thread with an opinion that is near enough that line.</p>

186

<p>Former client, quite successful family. She herself conservative in dress and life style. Then she got breast cancer in her 60’s. She vowed that if she survived, she’d get a pink ribbon near her wrist. She got the tattoo, and was very happy seeing it daily. Another co-worker got very small tattoo to show her success from her ED, but it was hidden on upper leg. </p>

<p>My g/f did the permanent eye liner 6 years ago, and it held up. Other of my chemo patients got their eyebrows done. I think, in their circumstances, I could do so, too. My sister has one that only shows in a bikini. Otherwise, I can’t think of tattoos without seeing people with numbers burnt on their arms. Nothing pretty about that.</p>

<p>When my almost stepson got a cheap, black tattoo that extended from his upper arm to his wrist, I mentioned that he may have to wear long sleeve shirts at work, or at least at interviews. Naively, I said that at least it did not extend to his upper hand. I mentioned that visible black tattoo could limit his hiring. So, the next day, he got the ugly extension. I felt that was a slap in my face.</p>

187

<p>"PG, you contradicted your own question/stance by asking about Peg Bundy then saying YOUR own place of employment has hired a receptionist who has visible tattoos. I don’t know any receptionists who do nothing but say hello and take coats. But since your OWN office has hired a tattooed person, obviously it is OK with that business to have the “face of the company” be tattooed. So what’s the issue?</p>

<p>No one, I don’t think, has said that someone can be covered head-to-toe in tats, have 5 or 6 visible piercings and purple hair and be expected to get hired anywhere at all. But from what I see around Seattle, most places are like your very own-they are ok with even moderate tats or piercings, even in jobs where public contact is important. Which was my point."</p>

<p>Well, wait a minute, I thought per post 173 above, tattoos have “nothing to do with how one performs a job – nothing.” And you find that wrong, wrong, wrong, and superficial to boot</p>

<p>But now you’re saying someone covered head-to-toe w multiple piercings shouldn’t be expected to get hired. So isn’t it just a matter of degree where you draw the line between some and many? </p>

<p>If I were to guess, maybe 1/3 of my office has tattoos (that I know about - obviously there may be those I don’t). Most are of the small rose on ankle variety that are visible but unobtrusive. Our receptionist actually has the most, and our most artistic person, our graphic artist, doesn’t have any since she expresses herself through creative clothing. </p>

188

<p>“No one, I don’t think, has said that someone can be covered head-to-toe in tats, have 5 or 6 visible piercings and purple hair and be expected to get hired anywhere at all. But from what I see around Seattle, most places are like your very own-they are ok with even moderate tats or piercings, even in jobs where public contact is important. Which was my point.”</p>

<p>We are ok with it because it’s so darn prevalent and ubiquitous that we don’t have a choice but not to “accept” moderate tattoos, which is different from thinking “what an attractive look!” </p>

189

<p>“You could refuse to hire someone for having a tattoo, but that makes as little sense to me as refusing to hire someone because they like country music. That’s crossing the line. If you genuinely feel that having the tattoo would actually impact their job performance (for example, it is not concealable and would potentially alienate clients during required interactions) then that is a different matter… if it is really for that reason and not just because you just don’t like tattoos”</p>

<p>Well, that’s a blurry line indeed, because what my office (not at all a “formal” office, we all wear jeans, and it’s in our best interest to showcase young people and show some spark and creativity) would call “moderate” might be too much for the law office or bank. So make up your mind - is the law office or bank justified or not justified in refusing to hire the receptionist with the tattoo? </p>

<p>I adore our receptionist. She’s a fabulous young woman. I can do that, and also think it’s a shame she’s permanently marked her body like that. I know her tattoos are meaningful to her - one is related to a friend who died. I can admire the sentiment and still (privately, quietly) think it’s unattractive. Of course I’d never tell her that, any more than she’d walk up to me amd tell me she didn’t like my hair or shoes or whatever. </p>

190

<p>"1) Your daughters never get tattoos, because they share your tastes. In which case your threats did nothing.</p>

<p>2) Your daughters get tattoos after college (or get them and manage to conceal them), in which case they never respected your tastes, they just went along with them long enough to get what they needed out of you. Not what I would call any kind of success, financial OR parenting."</p>

<p>How is #2 problematic? They knew their parents felt deeply over something, so they waited til they were of age / financially independent to do that something themselves. They avoided picking a deliberate fight. What’s wrong with that outcome? Why is that a “failure”? </p>

191

<p>

Well, I see people around me all the time doing things that I think are silly, stupid, self-destructive, and more. Like smoking, for example. Usually I don’t say anything, unless it’s a loved one.</p>

<p>Or if somebody asks me. Like they did in the first post of this thread. </p>

<p>I was at an event the other day, and there was a young man there with one of the stupidest-looking mullets I have ever seen. Of course, I said nothing. He might be a wonderful fellow, and he might even have a good reason for sporting such a tragic hairstyle (maybe he’s in a play). But he could at least change that easily.</p>

<p>And about hiring–I would be hesitant to hire a person who I thought exhibited poor judgment. Riding a motorcycle would be an example of that. Having a visible tattoo would be a somewhat lesser example. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t hire a person who did either of these things, but if that’s my first impression, they’re going to have to do something to overcome it.</p>

192

<p>I’m just going to say this.</p>

<p>I think to some degree, people who judge tattoos on their young adults (college aged kids = young adults to me, unless they are really immature) are against tattoos because they - the parents - will be embarrassed to their friends/family/coworkers/peers that their child has a tattoo. It has SOME to do with what they want for their child but also has to do with their own comfort/status.</p>

<p>This is a thought. Not a finger pointing. Tell me if you agree or disagree. </p>

193

<p>I thought tattoos were stupid long before I had any kids.</p>

194

<p>Let’s forget the tiny, unobtrusive roses on the ankle or the wrist for the moment. Is getting full sleeves or very in-your-face, prominent tattoos that can’t be covered up a display of good judgment? Why or why not? </p>

195

<p>Here’s a judgment I freely made. I was interviewing for a professional, six figure job. The people I was interviewing had 12-15 years experience, so they weren’t fresh out of school. We are a casual office, but professional norms are that you polish it up to smart business casual for an interview. One woman showed up in super-casual t-shirt, jeans and sneakers, with her hair kind of wild and uncombed. All the other candidates were in more polished outfits. Not buttoned up business suits, but nice trousers, a sweater, a blazer, etc. We did hold it against her. She sent a signal by her dress that she showed poor judgment. </p>

<p>And before someone goes there, this wasn’t about wearing sky high heels and Armani, because these threads always derail in that direction. </p>

196

<p>I just can’t imagine withholding tuition over my kid’s head for something as silly as a tatt. </p>

<p>There are a few things I hope my kid won’t do- ride motorcycles, smoke, drink to excess, but I am realistic in that I have little to no control over of his behaviors. But, the one thing I want my kid to do is graduate college. I can’t imagine spending thousands of dollars of mine on his education then pulling out the rug before he finishes. All my money down the drain and for what? </p>

197

<p>^^^Funny you should say that PG. I almost added that caveat to my post # 191 - because I do wonder if it matters to some to people - a rose on a never uncovered part?- fine. A rose on an uncovered part? - fine or not? </p>

<p>I imagine that some who are against tattoos will be against with conditions. But some will be against under all conditions. </p>

<p>Can’t say “let’s forget the tiny…” because for many, I think it IS inclusive - any tattoo = not accepted. </p>

198

<p>“think to some degree, people who judge tattoos on their young adults (college aged kids = young adults to me, unless they are really immature) are against tattoos because they - the parents - will be embarrassed to their friends/family/coworkers/peers that their child has a tattoo. It has SOME to do with what they want for their child but also has to do with their own comfort/status.”</p>

<p>What “status”? I don’t derive any “status” from my kids having or not having tattoos. If my kid were to get a tattoo, why would that “embarrass” me? In front of whom? No one much cares. There’s no one in my extended family or circle of friends who would do anything other than shrug and say “oh well.” </p>

<p><strong><em>I</em></strong> (and H) don’t care for them. That’s all the “fallout” there would be. </p>

199

<p>IMO, small, tasteful tattoos, especially breast cancer ribbons and such that are personally meaningful are ok, though in truth I am in the “I don’t like tattoos” house. The Adam Levine full arms tattoos, I just dont get. </p>

200

<p>When I see a full-arm tattoo, or a gauged-out ear, my first thought is, “Who is he angry at?”</p>