<p>Maybe she will get a tattoo in Nepal.
After all she is 18 now, ( although do Nepalese shops ask for ID?)</p>
<p>" You seem to want to control their lives, their decisions so that they fit into your mold, whether they agree with that mold or not."</p>
<p>Aren’t we all trying to mold our children, from the day they are born? Is there something magical about being 18 that the molds are broken and if the child hasn’t assumed the form, well, the parent must give up and just let them be the gob the mold didn’t form? And the parents must keep paying for it? My kids need a little more time to set. They can make some decisions but they can’t make them all. Blue hair? Fine. Painted nails? Sure. Clothing that is just awful? Okay. Being in a Girls Gone Wild video? No. Lip piercing? No. Tattoo? No. Temporary Tattoo, henna? Okay, but I won’t like it if it is all over their hands.</p>
<p>I’m financially independent from my parents, but I’m still welcome at their house, can drive their cars if I need to, can even have an extended stay. I’m required to follow their rules, be respectful. I said I would still love my children, I just wouldn’t be giving them any money. There are people who don’t allow their children to play football, no matter what age. I feel that way about boxing, wrestling, martial arts fighting, smoking, chewing tobacco and a whole list of other things that will never be an issue for me or them, just like tattoos will never be an issue for others. Everyone gets to have her own list of taboos, and tattoos are on mine.</p>
<p>I’ve said I don’t care that it is a little issue to you, that you are willing to overlook it as a mistake is fine. I don’t think getting a tattoo happens by mistake or an accident - it’s a deliberate choice. A little tattoo you overlook, so the child gets another and another and then there is one you just won’t overlook because it’s HUGE or ugly or on his face. Your child will be shocked. You had no problem with the others, you forgave him, what’s one more? Why are you so mad now, mom and dad? It’s no big deal. My kids, until they are independent, will not have that shock. They know. My daughter can get a tattoo in Nepal, or she can get one at school, or when she’s home on NYE. Same response from me.</p>
<p>My kids have had some pressure from peers to get tattoos. My having strict rules gives them an out and they have told me that (even though they may want a tattoo like a 6 year old wants a pony -want it now, regret it later). I know my kids. Tattoos are not right for them, but I know they can be pressured into getting ‘just one’ or ‘just one more.’ I know my kids aren’t ready to make all these decisions just because they are 18 and allowed to. I’m still molding them into adults.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this is relevant to twoinanddone, but there can be religious reasons for not getting a tattoo (against Jewish law), and/or there can be familial reasons (if you grew up seeing grandpa’s concentration camp number tattooed on his arm, the idea of a tattoo might seem especially dreadful). </p>
<p>But I think it’s kind of odd that you are sort of quasi-hoping two’s daughter goes and gets a tattoo in Nepal “just to show her.” I hate to break it to you, but these things simply aren’t soooo attractive that everyone who is “forbidden” to have one is chafing at the restraint. </p>
<p>I do not like tattoo, not because it is trashy, but just don’t find it attractive. My kid’s father likes tattoo because he thinks it is sexy. It gives you a bit of insight as to why we are no longer together. Without any threat from me, both of my girls never asked to get a tattoo. As far as I know, neither one has a tattoo.</p>
<p>I am not sure why people are so upset with twinanddone’s stand with her kids. We all have our push buttons, doesn’t make one more valid than another. I know there are parents who insist on their kids must have the same religion or political view as they do. I don’t see how that’s acceptable to most people and having a stand against tattoo is controlling.</p>
<p>I am not into “hard lining” it has never really worked for me with my children. I think it is fine for other families if it is something their children respond to. Personally, I find it more perplexing that some parents require their children to attend church services well into their late teens than I do forbidding tattoo.</p>
<p>
Hmmm. But a bit earlier, you said that if they asked you in advance, as reasonably as possible, you would still say no and maintain the “fact” that getting a tattoo would cut off funds. So I have to question whether the respect flows in both directions or not. </p>
<p>I let my daughter get two tattoos when she was 16. I don’t advocate that position for others, but at the time there were enough other battles we were fighting in our family that I decided I wasn’t fighting that one. In fact, researching the whole thing for her is what led me to decide to get one myself! She is now 30, an Episcopal priest, and does not regret her tattoos. They are not big and both can be covered up if necessary. They don’t show in her clerical collar. </p>
<p>Right, there are sometimes different hills to die on depending on the totality of the circumstances!! </p>
<p>It’s really not about the tattoo ban, oldfort. It’s the hard line. The draw no quarters, take no prisoners stand that some of us, even those who don’t LIKE tats, are objecting to. </p>
<p>I think it’s a mistake to treat legal adults as though they’re dumb kids who can’t think for themselves and therefor must be controlled. I don’t feel that helps young people learn how to navigate the real world. I don’t for a second think they are, at legal or just shy of 18, like 6 year olds (see above post by twoinanddone). I also think there’s a vast difference between a successful person in their 40-50’s calling themselves “financially independent” and welcome to visit their parents and an 18-21 yo still in school having the rug of education pulled out from under them. They might be “financially independent” in their mother’s eyes, but really, they’d be financially strapped for years to come, unless they own their own stocks or something.</p>
<p>As the parent of two young people much older than twoinanddone’s D’s, I can assure you that while lots of 18-21 yo’s have some growing up to do, at that age they deserve to be treated like the young adults they are, not like recalcitrant children begging for a lolly pop. There are people in my extended family and in-law’s family who grew up with hard line parents. There isn’t one of them who isn’t living with resentment or emotional baggage as a result. And it wasn’t about tattoos for any of them. </p>
<p>I don’t hope she gets one in Nepal, I just said my reaction wouldn’t change if she got one there or at college or on spring break - I’m against tattoos and have told my kids the consequences of getting one.</p>
<p>@hunt, this isn’t something that I’m willing to bargain about. Do I respect their opinions? Sure. Does that mean that in order to respect their opinions (or in this case desires) that I give in and they get to have their way? No. This isn’t a situation where they can have tattoos and I can have them not have them. You can’t be a little bit pregnant. I respect their right to chose, but if they chose to get a tattoo, they get no more money from me. My money, my terms.</p>
<p>I get it that many of you think my rules are arbitrary and stupid. I’d probably find some of the choices you make for your kids and household either too loose or too tight. Take off your shoes in the house? Pierce a baby’s ears in the delivery room? No. Circumcise your son? No way. Don’t vaccinate? Insane. There are a lot of kids posting on CC whose parents won’t pay for college at all, so they’d probably like the deal my kids have. If I didn’t want to have an ongoing influence for my kids after age 18, I could have just given them 4 years of tuition money on their 18th birthdays. I didn’t want to do that. Tuition is not a right or guaranteed. </p>
<p>I think my conditions are reasonable. You don’t. I get your position, but I don’t agree.</p>
<p>No circumcision? See joke in post # 236.</p>
<p>“If I didn’t want to have an ongoing influence for my kids after age 18, I could have just given them 4 years of tuition money on their 18th birthdays.”</p>
<p>So your position is that legal adulthood is trumped by arbitrary parental need for control, using money to do it. Gotcha. </p>
<p>“I think it’s a mistake to treat legal adults as though they’re dumb kids who can’t think for themselves and therefor must be controlled. I don’t feel that helps young people learn how to navigate the real world. I don’t for a second think they are, at legal or just shy of 18, like 6 year olds (see above post by twoinanddone).”</p>
<p>Well, they vary quite a bit. Age is just a number after all. That said I don’t care at all if my kids get a discreet meaningful tattoo somewhere and fortunately they are unlikely to plaster themselves with ink in an offensive fashion because they are firmly in the camp that finds that’s Tattoo Highway level artistic expression pretty repulsive. So, yay!</p>
<p>sseamom - I actually think it is a great lesson for the young adults to learn. As long as you are depending on someone financially, you are beholding to them. That is why I don’t like to take money from people/institutions, and that includes colleges . I would say I tend to take hard line with my kids, and maybe that’s why they are all hot to trot to be financially independent from me. D1 is self supporting now and we continue to be very close. </p>
<p>We all have our own parenting style. I think it is worse when parents do not clearly state what they believe in. They leave their kids guessing and then get angry when their kids do something they don’t want them to do. Worse yet, sometimes they are fine with it and sometimes they are not. I believe it is our responsibility, as parents, to set guidelines (or rules) for our kids until they are independent. Without those guidelines, there would be nothing for our kids to rebel against or challenge. Twoinanddone’s kids may not like their mom’s rule about tattoo, but some day when they are older they may come to realization that their mom was right or they may decide to get one as soon as they are out of the house. </p>
<p>My hard line? Don’t have a baby while I am still supporting you. I would cut you off because I have no intention of raising your babies. I am sure there are a lot of parents who feel differently than me, and that’s fine. But this is another topic.</p>
<p>think it’s a mistake to treat legal adults as though they’re dumb kids who can’t think for themselves and therefor must be controlled. I don’t feel that helps young people learn how to navigate the real world. "</p>
<p>The real world is often full of arbitrary rules </p>
<p>It is why so many young people I work with think it is unreasonable I should expect them to show up at 9am, because they think it is arbitrary. They feel they are entitled to express their opinion freely at any forum because they have been brought up to believe it is their rights.</p>
<p>“So your position is that legal adulthood is trumped by arbitrary parental need for control, using money to do it. Gotcha.”</p>
<p>Her position isn’t arbitrary. Arbitrary would be if she said she’d cut off her kids if they drank Coke instead of Pepsi or some other trifling choice. A tattoo - insofar as it is both permanent and disfiguring - is a value for some people. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t argue that tattoos are deep and meaningful personal expressions for those who like them, but trivial and of no consequence to those who don’t like them. Like I said, I’d probably harumph for a while and get over it - but it IS a value I’ve expressed to my kids, in a way I haven’t / don’t need to over clothing styles, hair cuts, or Coke vs Pepsi. </p>
<p>Frankly it would be MORE arbitrary to say a certain size tattoo was ok but not any bigger. </p>
<p>
Absolutely. Personally, I am trying to mold my children in knowledgeable, reasonable, conscientious adults who can make their own decisions. There are mores that I expect them to hold, but they are the same as I expect of the rest of the population - don’t steal, don’t hurt people you don’t have to, etc. If their aesthetic or personal choices and opinions are different than mine, that’s fine. I feel that trying to mold them into some version of me is a terrible thing when I should be helping them to find out who they are. </p>
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First, I don’t consider a tattoo to be a mistake automatically. Certainly it can be, but I don’t consider any of my tattoos to be mistakes and certainly would not presume that another’s tattoo would arbitrarily be a mistake.</p>
<p>Second, I don’t see why anyone would handle such an issue in such a way. I talk to my kids. If they do something that I think is a bad idea, I’m going to tell them exactly which parts of it were a mistake and why, and I am going to let them know any future directions I would be worried about (“So this time he just yelled at you, but if he ever hits you…”). What you are describing is simply terrible communication between a parent and child.</p>
<p>
Or banks? Or employers? Just because someone gives you money doesn’t meant that they have a legal or moral right to dictate irrelevant terms. They may be able to force the issue by virtue of being the only one able to provide that money (this is, for example, the way many women are forced into prostitution), but that does not mean that is acceptable that they do so. I think it is a very dangerous route to ascribe any more control to money that cannot be avoided.</p>