Can we talk about tattoos?

Parent Cafe
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I won’t speak for anyone else, but it has been abundantly clear from your post that this is an enormous deal for you. I am more sure of that point than I have been of anything discussed in this thread. I am more sure of that point than I am of my own name.</p>

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No, religion might explain your opinion on tattoos but it would not explain your reaction to the possibility of your children getting one.</p>

<p>We all know that you despise tattoos so much that a child defiant enough to get one, however discrete and personally meaningful, would be removed from any kind of financial support, apparently regardless of the consequences to them. We all know that you feel that your children are not sufficiently mature to make that decision. We all know that, to the very best of your knowledge, your children both fully understand and appear to fully abide by your rules. We all know that tattoos are effectively permanent and this makes getting one a bigger issue than many other choices. You have made all of this abundantly clear. </p>

<p>What is NOT clear is why this is all so. Why your kids are categorically incapable of making the decisions that the majority of 18-22 year olds do all the time. Why you feel (if you do) that one of your kids having a tattoo is such a large problem. Why you feel that removal of all financial support (an action historically associated with major problems completing school) is an appropriate punishment for getting even the smallest, prettiest, most concealable of tattoos.</p>

<p>That you don’t think it would happen is irrelevant. The issue is the scale of the punishment to the apparent scale of the infraction. PG seems to have a pretty reasonable line - she hates tattoos, but would largely limit her reaction to expressing her disapproval verbally. You, on the other hand, consider this betrayal to be enough to rip all your support out from a kid. I mentioned up thread that the UAE has a 4 year jail term for marijuana possession, and while no one contest their legal ability to do so nor their right to decide whether or not they wish to approve or punish such actions, it is largely considered here in the US that this is a ridiculous over-reaction. That is how I see your threatened consequence. Even if you have the right to do so, even if you thoroughly detest tattoos, your reaction is so out of proportion to the offense that I simply cannot rationalize this being a good way to treat your kids.</p>

<p>Regardless, it does not appear that either of us are able to explain our positions on this matter. I hope that you are able to maintain a good relationship with your children. I have known parents who have staked out these kinds of positions, and they all, every one of them, have found themselves estranged from one or more of their kids. Good luck.</p>

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Why is it not clear to you that it can be a big deal to some people, just like why is it so important for some people to have their kids go to church every Sunday. No, not majority of 18-22 year olds make that kind of decisions all the time. My kids don’t, but they are free to pick up any religion they want. I really just don’t understand why some people can’t respect others who have different believes or values. It doesn’t make you a better or worst person (parent) because you have different values.</p>

<p>I think it is perfectly fine for young people to have alcohol under age 21, but a lot of parents do not think it is appropriate and the law does not allow it, so I do not serve alcohol to other young adults. To me, to have drinking age at 21 is very arbitrary.</p>

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<p>I rebel, I’m free to chose what I want… and I do it on other people’s dime. :wink: In the corporate world, there would be repercussions. Cutting down the petty cash allowance has nothing to do with not loving the kids or being a controlling parent: we do our kids a favor if we teach them that being fiscally responsible and having the willpower to wait to satisfy their carvings, be it gambling, tattoos, shoes, etc. will be helpful in their independent life (were they will have to adhere to rules and laws of not their own choice). College kids are old enough to know that even though the Bank of Mom and Dad can deny the next subsidy, Mom and Dad still love them. If my kids equated their access to petty cash with me loving them, I would consider myself a failed parent.</p>

<p>That said… Here is what I think is a good summary of the discussion:</p>

<p>The Court of Combined CC Wisdom, taking into consideration all evidence brought up by the OP and the discussion which herein resulted, holds: since the OP’s kid i) is a mature adult, ii) is paying for the decoration of her body with her own hard earned money, iii) by the nature of her courses of study leading to a future degree of Biology is aware of the potential risks and complications, iv) designed her own pretty artwork for said tattoo which does not look like a generic snake or rose and has no mentioning of the kid’s BF’s name(s), v) discussed the issue with her parent, and vi) the parent is not going to have a heart attack over this, she may get her tattoo, as long as she researches the placement of the tattoo, the reputation of the tattoo artist, and the practices of the shop of her choosing carefully. :)</p>

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<p>I completely agree with PG that sseamom’s example is not relevant to this discussion. The young woman sseamom posted didn’t have a choice in the situation she was in, whereas twinandone’s kids have options. No different than if I were to decide to abide by my employer’s rules or be without a job. I have walked out of jobs before, but I also did it with full knowledge of my consequences.</p>

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<p>@cosmicfish - While it would take more than a tattoo for me to cut my children off financially, I really don’t understand why you have to go all nuclear on this issue with @twoinandone. Families have different rules and we can’t expect them to mirror ours. We have very few rules in our household and I know a lot people who do not agree with that. But it’s my family so I get to do it my way.</p>

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<p>I think as a result of this thread, Pizzagirl is out getting a tattoo, twoinanddone is strip searching her kids, and I’m planning the removal of my</p>

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<p>What would be the appropriate ‘punishment’ or perhaps atonement for my child who decided to get a tattoo? Four years in jail? Removal of the tattoo with great pain to them and glee for me? Of course not. Nothing can be done after the fact except, in your view, that I get over it and forgive them for doing what they want and keep everything else just the same. No punishment for the child, only great disappointment for me. And if this same child chooses to do it again? I’m supposed to just look the other way, to understand that this tattoo, whatever it is, has ‘great significance’ to my child and is of course discrete. Really? Every tattoo has great meaning and is discrete? Eighteen year olds have a need to have Mickey Mouse or LUV YA or a shamrock on their body as art?</p>

<p>At my house, my kids weren’t suddenly more mature on their 18th birthdays (well, my one child just turned 18 last Sunday, but I don’t expect an epiphany of knowledge and maturity to have occurred before the next time I see her). I did not dump all these adult decisions on them, and we continue with the status quo for most things, including the ban on tattoos. They are not suddenly deciding if vaccinations are a good idea, if they should wear seat belts, if they should begin smoking. Honestly, the biggest difference was that I had to sign all the college documents before each turned 18 and they had to sign them after they turned 18. Not that much changed on the big days or since. My kids are still going to turn to me and ask if I think they need a vaccine or to get a tooth fixed or buy a computer even if it with their own money. </p>

<p>One of my kids was born 16 weeks early. She was years behind her same aged peers for a long time, in size, motor skills, reasoning, and sometimes maturity. She has planning issues and often has to have consequences explained to her because she just can’t see the train coming down the tracks and get that there might be danger. She’s a delight, just not a lot of common sense. The other spent 2.5 years in an orphanage. She’s younger than most in her school grade, and is often with group or team members who are 18-24 months older than her (now in college 2-5 years older) for projects or activities. She’s school and street smart, but not mature. These are my realities, but it doesn’t matter what my reasons are. I’m the parent, I’m entitled to set the standards of our lives.</p>

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<p>Ah, the tattoo thread in its googleplex iteration, missed it! <em>lol</em>…</p>

<p>Seriously, tattoos are personal decisions and when it comes to parenting, parents have different ideas of what is appropriate, what they tolerate and so forth. If the parent is paying the bills in college, or supporting the kid, then it is their right to set the rules. And if the adult child got tattoos when they were on their own, and the parent didn’t like it to the point they cut them off, while I would find that quite sad, it is their right to do so. Personally I don’t understand the furor over tattoos, while there is a big difference between those who get them all over their body and those who have them in places that can be hidden when needed, I don’t see how it is a disaster in the making, especially if they can be covered…but that is me.</p>

<p>Will getting a tattoo ruin your future? Obviously, there are people who still freak out over them, the parents who don’t want their kids to have it might very well chuck a qualified candidate for having a tattoo, so there are people like there out there. However, if a tattoo is in a place that can be covered, I don’t think many employers make people doing interviews do an invasive scan of their body…I don’t think Tattoos means a kid is wild, a derelict, a biker, a redneck, a ‘loose woman’ or anything else, and these days you see them in places not long ago would not hire them, times change. </p>

<p>I do object to people characterizing who someone is by the way they look, what they wear, how they wear it, but with parental decisions it comes down to what you believe and what is worth fighting over. I have sadly seen kids thrown out of homes because the parent thought they were gay, or didn’t practice the right religion, and to me it would be pretty sad to lose the bond with my child over things like that, when there are really horrible and people in this world, who do really bad things, and to be honest, I would be less upset if my kid came home with body piercings then if he came home and said he was working for a bucket shop brokerage house…but that is me.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand the furor over not making rules for 18-year olds. At all. </p>

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<p>Just throwing my vote of support for @cosmicfish instead of letting him flounder out there alone (get it - cosmicfish and FLOUNDER!) He has not been the only one going “nuclear” on this issue - some of us just walked away a little faster, but with the same opinions. I think the bottom line became not a clear cut “tattoos or not” but “no tattoo or else”. </p>

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<p>Of course, the whole “parenting/controlling an adult kid age 18-24” situation (whether it involves college or major choices, tattoos, or anything else that the parent may want to require of the adult kid) comes about because of:</p>

<p>a. College is now too expensive for an 18-year-old high school graduate to self-fund without any parental assistance.
b. A bachelor’s degree is the expected credential for a greater percentage of career-track jobs now than before.
c. The way financial aid works, parents have absolute veto power over the 18-24 year old college student’s college choices, except when the student has a full ride merit scholarship.</p>

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I am out coloring my hair pink. I am strip searching D2 to make sure she doesn’t have any tattoos.</p>

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<p>A lot of parents control their children with money way into adulthood. I have a friend whose mother pays for all the grandchildren to attend a very expensive summer day camp for 6 weeks every summer. The camp just happens to be about 15 minutes from the grandmothers summer home. So of course she gets the grandchildren and my friend and her sisters for 6 weeks every summer. But my friend doesn’t like spending 6 whole weeks every summer with her mother. So last summer she chose another program for her children in her own town which, by the way, cost 50% less. Well the grandmother said “no deal” - I am happy to pay for all the grandchildren’s summer camp but only if it is the one I choose. </p>

<p>Now my friend and I both agreed that seemed unfair, but at the end of day it was her money. My friend’s parents are extremely well off, while my friend is married to a college professor who does just fine but cannot afford all these little extras. My friend already knows that the college funds set up for the grandchildren will come with all sorts of strings attached. </p>

<p>My take away from this is that if you want to call your own shots you have to be able to finance them. The minute you get involved with other people’s money your independence is compromised.</p>

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<p>Ahhhh… What a perfect combo - Louboutins and tattoos! The money I saved by cutting my kids’ allowances can finally get me something I always wanted!!!</p>

<p><a href=“http://us.christianlouboutin.com/us_en/shop/women/highness.html”>http://us.christianlouboutin.com/us_en/shop/women/highness.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Aren’t they gorgeous?</p>

<p>(LOL, they are hideous)</p>

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<p>Here’s something we see pretty often on this board:</p>

<p>Poster 1: [Expresses some pretty extreme position on parenting.]</p>

<p>Poster 2: How can you possible justify such an extreme position?</p>

<p>Poster 1:

</p>

<p>My view is that if you have some extreme position that you’d rather not justify, why tell us about it at all?</p>

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<p>Hunt, I agree. When I had my youngest, “Mommy playgroups” online were all the rage. I would see arguments about breastfeeding, baby-wearing, co-sleeping, mothers working or staying at home, as if you child’s entire life hinged on one of these decisions. People would swear, call each other names, and I’d sit there, as the parent of two much older kids born before online group Mommy groups existed and scratch my head. When my oldest left for boot camp, I sure wasn’t worried about how many months I breastfed him. And I cared not one iota whether someone who was not me thought I was a good parent or not because I didn’t “wear” him as a baby. I just wanted him to survive his deployment.</p>

<p>And that’s why this tattoo thing bothers me so much. I have young adults out there in the real world. They are alive, happy, healthy and are good people. It brings me joy that they are in my life and want to spend time with me. I can’t imagine cutting them out over something superficial like body art. </p>

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<p>My D announced on Saturday night that she is getting a tattoo. Nobody on any side of her family has any that we know of. D was worried that we would be upset.</p>

<p>I guess my attitude is that it does not matter if we are upset. (I am not. I have not discussed it with H to know if he is or not.) She is 21 and paying for it herself. She is not using money that she needs to pay for her last semester of college.</p>

<p>How is it my business?</p>

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<p>I am thinking that the parents expressing the “extreme” views perhaps are unaware that others would classify them as such until they posted. Families don’t evaluate their parenting decisions until “if and when” issues arise. In this thread the poster appears to enjoy a good relationship with her D’s so all is well. She has no reason to second guess herself. </p>

<p>But I do agree with another poster who said what we “think” we would do if our child did XY or Z and what we “actually” would do are sometimes 2 different things. Cutting a child off is a huge decision and really cannot be done instantaneously. That would mean the child would be living on the street that day. I don’t think any parent on this board would do that to their child. </p>

<p>I appreciate these sorts of threads as it gives me a window into how others parent. We only have a few hard rules in our home and so far that has worked out relatively well. The big things we have not had issues with; it’s the small things like picking up their clothes and maintaining their personal space that are constant battles. Guess we could have used a few more rules!</p>

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<p>It’s a whole other ball of wax, but I have a relative whose father announced in no uncertain terms that no child of HIS would EVER be allowed to live there if they were gay. They would be told to pack up and leave, no matter their age. He stated this many times when his kids were growing up/ So my young relative has never told him that she is gay. When I read of extreme views that include throwing a kid out and of compliant, happy kids, I wonder how many of them are like my relative-hiding a significant part of her life just so that her father will still welcome her in his.</p>

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Agreed. Here’s another scenario that happens pretty often (not in this thread):</p>

<p>OP: Help me convince my [family member] that [some extreme position] is correct.</p>

<p>All other posters: [Expressions of disagreement, if not horror.]</p>

<p>OP: [Angry denunciation of all other posters.]</p>