Yes definitely. At kid’s schools (UG and MM) there were/are Artist Diploma folks. And the major conservatories have them (Curtis etc.)
1 Like
thanks everyone! He’s done several summer programs that are mostly grad students and older, so I do think he’s talking to people about this stuff. In fact, I might be doing more worrying about it on my own than I need to…but I do think he tends to just think about the fun parts of what he wants to do and assume the money part will work out…somehow. So I’m trying to be at least somewhat informed about that side of it!
It’s been several years ago but my S’s college gf got very good monetary support to do her MM in clarinet performance at UC Boulder where she was in a graduate wind chamber group.
I think Rice is known to be generous with funding but also very competitive.
1 Like
Yep def does, schools like Juilliard, Curtis et al offer them. They generally are a lot more competitive than standard grad admission, often it is people who already have a performing career going (not always).
1 Like
Having gone through this with my son, it all depends on the school and how much they want the student,usually how much a teacher will fight for them (IDK, is Curtis even offering grad degrees these days?).
In music performance you don’t get a PHd, and as far as I know with it (not an expert) it is a DMA. From what I know they may not be fully funded, but DMA students do teaching the way PHd students, so there is likely a stipend for doing so as well as reduced or free tuition. Usually living expenses are on the student I believe.
In terms of finances,what basically happens is you audition and they offer a package. I can only go from the limited experience with my son, and it ranged from pretty much free tuition (it was like 1500/semester) to like 75%. A lot of it seemed to be based on a teacher wanting you there, if you have a teacher wanting to teach the student they will fight for them and try and get a better package. My experience with the programs my son applied to it was a lot less need based and more merit, where UG was the opposite. (I am trying to recall with grad school if we had to file a fafsa, possibly). In the case where parents can’t pay or if the kid is truly on their own, there could be more money between merit and need. I will add that admissions to MM programs at the top tier schools tends to be tighter, they tend to be more choosy, so merit kind of comes along with that.
I will add I agree with another poster, that the stand alone conservatories (at all levels) are not great with aid for grad school, they have much the same attitude that they do in UG, if you are lucky enough to get in here, you better be prepared to take out loans and such. It is still mostly need based, if they decide the parents can pay (unless the kid totally declares himself free of that), it will be limited aid, merit or otherwise (merit is tied to need as well).
My recommendation would be to figure out what schools the son is interested in, and use that as a starting point. One huge tool few people use, and that is talk to the grad admissions or financial aid offices, and ask them how grad school in music works, if they are doing an MM…is it mostly need based, does parent income come into the picture, and what is a typical grant look like. They are there for that, and honestly, they have no reason to lie. As a rule, the 'less prestigious schools" will probably be more generous if the student is talented/teacher there likes them, they after all want to try and burnish their program. And the big one, especially as a grad student, if there is a program you want to go to, you have a teacher who likes you, get them involved, aid is negotiable. At one program the teacher there wanted my son, but the financial aid department really gave a low ball offer, they said parents (us) could pay full freight. Teacher got involved on our appeal. and it came to be like 75%.
One thing I agree with other people,if they want to make a career out of music, the best outcome is not to take out loans. If you have a program where the student could pay for it with parental resources and having some kind of jobs,whatever, that would be one I would look at. Loans are bad enough these days with kids having trouble finding jobs out of college or being underemployed, with music to me it is just crazy to have loans. I know that sound harsh, but you have to understand that I am looking at this from the viewpoint of a son who went that route, grad school and then into the world.
If the goal is to be in a group that makes a living performing and travelling, it takes a long time to establish a career where you are making enough to live on. When I hear “well, they they can work a job at something that pays the bills, and do the music outside that”, in practical reality that won’t work. If you have loans, it will mean working prob a full time job, and with a chamber group it takes nearly full time work by the group to get good enough to make it, you can’t do it an hour or two here or there. If music is going to be a side gig, where the members work full time jobs but then do music, play events on the weekend, etc, even then you don’t want to have loans. It is likely in that scenario the jobs/gigs are not going to be super high paying, so again will be a strain.
Loans simply are impractical for music performance students IME/IMO. So while teacher and program is important, the financial aspect has to play a major role in this, you don’t want debt coming out.
Yale SOM is full tuition, so you would just need living expenses (IDK if they have grad housing and how that works).
Curtis is free, as is Colburn, but of course they are difficult to get into.
The big conservatories like Juilliard and MSM are expensive and they are not known for generous aid, and they both are in very expensive cities (again, it is going to depennd).
I would put Rice on the list, experience is they have funding at the music school (they just built an incredible theater for opera), and with grad from what i know they are good with merit aid, basically if you get in there they seem to assume you are worth it (obviously, this is limited field of view). One advantage to Rice, if you want to do ensemble or orchestral performance, they emphasize that, much more than other music schools that tend to emphasize individual playing, another plus. Obviously, if you happen to live in a state where the state university has a top level program (Indiana, Michigan as examples), that might be great financially.
In the end, I would apply to schools at various tiers, I would try and find a teacher you want to study with and get to known them before the auditions, and if you get in, if the aid package isn’t great, get the teacher involved. It is one of these things that outside of free programs like Yale SOM and Colburn and Curtis, it is hard to predict what the money will look like. My son applied to one program at a mid tier after a teacher there said he could likely get good aid (most of his were top tier or the next one down), and their aid was dismal, even though their tuition was only modestly lower than the top programs.
I wish I had solid gold answers, but like I said, I think the process is find schools at all levels he wants to go to/be taught at, try and get a hold of the teacher/get to know them before applying, and in narrowing down the schools talk to their admissions/financial aid about how they handle grad school, I have found they generally are honest, if they apply need to merit scholarships they will let you know that, they also will tell you things like what a typical award is for grad students.
I wish it was easier. We are very lucky, we just had our son and we knew what it was going to be like, how much support it would take ug, grad and beyond, and we made the sacrifices it took to do it, not everyone is as fortunate (put it this way, we won’t be one of the those couples in retirement going around the world other than watching You Tube Channels). The finances are important, and I wish with music it was easier, I more than know the passion kids have with it, the dreams, but you have to be rooted in reality too, esp with loans.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences! Lots to think about! In our case, grad schools that take parental resources into account and award based partially on need would be a good thing; he’s pell-eligible right now, and excellent need-based aid was one of the big factors that went into making up his list of schools to apply to (and ultimately to attend) for undergrad. My impression was that grad schools don’t really care about this at all, though. My oldest son did fill out the FAFSA for grad school apps, but it didn’t have our financial info on it at all (I gathered it was just so he could get federal loans if he wanted/needed). But, again, totally different field.
Perhaps others will chime in…but I don’t recall a single grad program that awarded a Pell grant to grad students…
And usually aid for grad school is not need based but rather based on the programs desire to have you as a member of the cohort.
Think of it this way…most grad school students did not have much income in the prior prior year to grad school…because they were undergrads. This means just about all would be considered low income. Grad school students file the FAFSA as independent students in most cases. And yes, this is for access to the Direct and Grad Plus loans.
The key ingredient to getting some grad music merit aid is a very strong audition.
3 Likes
Yes, all graduate students are “needy”. So it can be a different “game” than UG.
A strong audition is certainly important. In my experience, I also found music school “need” to be important too. This may be more true for voice. You can be an amazing vocalist…but if they are looking for a different voice type to fill out their next two years of operas, you may not get an offer…or get an offer with little money.
For UG, this was not so much an issue (but of course they will try to balance out M and F voice types). But they will not be expected to sing principle roles. But for grad school, they know their upcoming year of operas…and they may be on the hunt for certain voice types…letting other talent go (or not offering a lot of money). I’m not sure how or if this would equate to auditions for insturmentalists.
3 Likes
Right, re: pell. That’s just for undergrad; I was just responding to @old_music_prnt 's comments about whether grad schools take financial need and their perception about whether the parents can pay or not into account. I’ve always figured no one really factors that in, since it’s assumed parent funding is out of the picture for grad students (although that’s clearly not true for everyone). So mentioning that he’s pell-eligible was just to say that a school that did look at that part of things would be to our benefit. And I guess also to say that when I say we can’t help much with grad school, I don’t mean that we don’t want to or don’t feel like it’s our responsibility…we really just can’t.
I see you mentioned finding schools that supported need well for Pell eligible undergrad was important to you. Do you recall which schools specifically seemed to provide more affordable options without taking large loans? I believe we’ve found a couple of good options, but suggestions of potentially affordable options would be most welcome!
1 Like
The only place he was accepted where the aid was generous enough that he wouldn’t need to take the federal loans was Blair/Vanderbilt, and that’s part of the reason he’s there (although he loves it there). Everywhere else, including his in-state public option, would have meant federal loans (maybe not the full amount every year, depending). He had decent packages from Baldwin Wallace and Lawrence as well, even though they don’t claim to meet need. He didn’t get into Oberlin (waitlisted and ultimately not admitted), but I’ve seen two FA packages from Oberlin for my other two kids, and they’ve been very solid. Would probably have been another needing to take some federal loans but not the whole amount situation. Oh, and my next kid was offered very good aid at St. Olaf as well.
The list of schools that meet need without loans is very small to start with (and they’re all tough admits of course), and it gets a good bit smaller when you add in wanting a BM. Rice maybe? Northwestern? (just checked a list at prep scholar…according to them yes to Northwestern and also Rice for incomes under $200,000). If you’re open to schools with strong music programs but not a BM or a conservatory-style program there are more. My next kid went back and forth until the last possible second about this and ended up at Amherst with great aid. The other no BM but great music program school he considered was Emory, which just went no loans a couple of years ago I believe (his FA offer there was also excellent).
1 Like
Please ask further questions about undergrad programs will be asked in a thread dedicated to that topic.
I wanted to comment that I write this from memory, I thought we had to file a fafsa with grad school with our son, but it is just as likely I am wrong (it was a while ago). They did end up paying for most of the tuition, it was only a nominal amount a semester, so given our income it would make sense it was merit only:). And def the money came because he had a teacher who wanted him/wanted to go to bat for him.
1 Like
My kid applied to four grad school programs. He submitted the FAFSA so he could access the federally funded loans, if needed. His aid from his music grad school program was definitely merit based, and not need based.
And he had a large cohort of undergrad friends who had the same outcome.
And parent info was not required on the FAFSA submitted for his music grad school program.
Sample of one plus my kid’s music friends.
2 Likes
Also sample of one here…around 2016. But I’m pretty sure that a stand alone conservatory requested parent financial information which surprised me. Other schools did not. This was the only school that offered $0 initially…saying basically…yea you are good enough…but not what we need. My D didn’t follow up on it as she wanted to land somewhere that she knew she would perform. Since we were 2 working parents with only 1 kids, we assumed any attempt at an appeal would not end favorably once we submitted it. Again…it was a surprise…so I don’t know if this continues…or was one school…. No other schools asked.
1 Like
This topic was automatically closed 180 days after the last reply. If you’d like to reply, please flag the thread for moderator attention.