<p>When you become an independent doctor, about 12 years of your adult life has been spent in college, med school, and internships/residency/fellowships. There are very few people who will be happy at all about having to spend MORE time living frugally to pay off their debts.</p>
<p>*When you become an independent doctor, about 12 years of your adult life has been spent in college, med school, and internships/residency/fellowships. **There are very few people who will be happy at all about having to spend MORE time living frugally **to pay off their debts. *</p>
<p>Exactly!!! At that point, the doctor is going to want to enjoy some of the fruits of his/her labor…buy a home, a decent car, perhaps marry, start a family, etc. He/she is not going to want to spend 10 MORE years living frugally (not affording a home) while paying back mega loans.</p>
<p>I think the mistake some might make is thinking that a doctor could/should treat the loan like a big house payment (which can be 30-40%+ of one’s income). The problem with that is then the person can’t afford a real house payment.</p>
<p>“At that point, the doctor is going to want to enjoy some of the fruits of his/her labor…buy a home, a decent car, perhaps marry, start a family, etc. He/she is not going to want to spend 10 MORE years living frugally (not affording a home) while paying back mega loans.”</p>
<p>And that is perhaps what is wrong with America. People think they DESERVE what they cannot afford. My relative has a beautiful life with no debt-- a husband, kids, a home, a nanny, two imported cars-- but that is <em>now,</em> after she paid back all her debt before marriage. It would have been impossible for her to go to med school without the loans (she actually foregoed the military med school to go to an ivy med school) but she worked hard and paid back all the $ and is thankful for that opportunity.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>How much did your relative borrow for med school? Did she have undergrad debt, too?</p>
<p>If so, what was her total debt?</p>
<p>There are young people who graduate debt free, make 50k, and find they have enough to live. It stands to reason, that someone who makes 200k and has 50k left after taxes and debt payments, should also have enough to live (if less capability to borrow) </p>
<p>But obviously, most people coming out earning 200k, with peers earning 200k are not mentally prepared to live on 50k</p>
<p>OTOH if someone starts out, knowing that their choice is going lead them to that lifestyle, and makes that choice anyway, that might be different. </p>
<p>We have no trouble telling people to consider ROTC, or a service academy. What do y’all think the accommodations are like in Kandahar province? Or the night life opportunities? But folks go into the army with an expectation, and a knowledge (I hope) of what that sacrifice is all about. If you go med school with that same mindset it could work. If you go to med school prepared to live “like a doctor”, well maybe not. </p>
<p>Right now my DD is considering two different tracks to her desired profession of architect. One involves minor debt, one involves significant debt. We have discussed the implications. Dollar and cents monthly payments. Other factors - “If you are debt free or close to it, you can live relatively well (not rich, she’d still be an architect) If you are willing to be real frugal, you could choose to do something real oddball and do goody, like work for Habitat for Humanity or something. If you take on debt, you will HAVE to take the best paying job you can, and you will STILL have to be very frugal” She listened, closely, and is thinking very seriously.</p>
<p>The thing is, it doesn’t just have to do with mental preparedness. Yes, if you’re in the mindset of someone who makes 200k a year, you aren’t going to be prepared to live on 50k a year. But there is the social aspect that you have to consider. If you’re making a high six figure income, you simply won’t be able to make friends with many people making 50k a year (for obvious reasons). And if you’re living like someone making 50k a year, you’re going to be ostracized by the people who have jobs comparable to yours too. That’s not to say you can’t do it, but it’s a lot harder than just getting in the right mindset.</p>
<p>I make less than $40,000/year, and I have a very good friend who makes several hundred thousand dollars a year. I know lots of people at many income levels in between, and I “even” have friends who earn less. I never thought that I couldn’t. Even at 50, I learn something new every day …</p>
<p>Amarkov, are you kidding? I know more than a few millionaires who live like they make $50K a year (and they’re even proud of it!) and have a number of highly paid professionals in my circle of family and friends who wouldn’t think of basing their friendships on income…that’s just shallow and pathetic! Who would want to rub elbows with people like that anyway?</p>
<p>I don’t know, maybe all the people I know are particularly shallow.</p>
<p>But obviously, most people coming out earning 200k, with peers earning 200k are not mentally prepared to live on 50k</p>
<p>That’s why lenders figure out these things the way they do. They know that many people who are making $200k are not going to want to live on $50k for several years with nothing to show for it (no investments, no home purchase, etc). They want to move on with their lives, buying homes, starting investments, etc.</p>
<p>I think the people who come up with these formulas do so because they are considering how the average person would be…not the exception.</p>
<p>It is true that many people are not prepared to live in a manner that would allow them to pay back their loans quickly. As one of my friends says, the more shelves we have, the more stuff we think we need so we can fill them. If we earn $50K, we don’t want to live like we earn $25k … </p>
<p>I just think it’s a bad idea to borrow a bunch. Even if you are committed to living frugally in order to pay off the debt relatively quickly, “stuff happens” in life. The less borrowed, the better. That doesn’t mean you should never borrow anything. It just means that you need to consider the consequences very, very carefully.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids,</p>
<p>As I wrote, my relative had <em>no</em> college debt and med school was completely paid for with loans. As a matter of fact, she got sick and repeated a year of med school so she had an extra year there. She went to an ivy league med school and graduated in the 90s so whatever it cost then was what she took out. She subsequently completed 2 residencies and 2 Master’s. She did not pay for the Master’s with $ (just sweat-- free tuition was included in her compensation for a job). I know she completely paid back all her loans and finished all her schooling before her 40th birthday. </p>
<p>Oh, and she had no lack of friends, almost all of whom were fellow doctors and dentists. Believe it or not, she never lived like a pauper. She rented a townhouse with her mom and they owned a nice vehicle which she bought at a very good price. She and her mom bought clothes and shoes at outlets and her mom is a wonderful cook. No, she didn’t take expensive vacations every year but they did go away, usually on Jet Blue. 
I doubt she had ever been to a spa before she married but she went to Florida regularly. (By the way, she married a fellow doctor and they LOVE Costco! They have a beautiful house and seem to have plenty of doctor friends.) </p>
<p>Again, I’m not advocating unnecessary loans-- but there’s a time and a place for everything. I think it’s a wonderful goal to get through college with as little debt as possible-- but doctors can pay med school loans back even when they’re not in high-paying specialties. </p>
<p>And kelsmom, I agree with you.</p>
<p>*my relative had <em>no</em> college debt and med school was completely paid for with loans.</p>
<p>She went to an ivy league med school and graduated in the 90s so whatever it cost then was what she took out.*</p>
<p>That seems reasonable. In the scenario that I was talking about, the student would borrow $200k for undergrad + $260k for med school = $460k in debt. I put forth that scenario because of what the OP asked:</p>
<p>*i’ve been reading about how much debt is too much, people mention running out of borrowing power for student loans beyond undergrad (such as: med school). is this true? **if you have high debt from undergrad, does it actually become impossible for someone to borrow enough money to get through med school? ***</p>