Candidates for new Secretary of Education

Parent Cafe
21

In my opinion, these are band-aids that do not come close to addressing the problem. These policies just keep the money in the pockets of Big Data and the testing industry.

I am in favor of an ROTC-type program that offers a free ride in college in exchange for 5 years of public school teaching at a competitive salary.

What salary does it take to convince a qualified young person to go to work at Google or Microsoft? Teachers’ salaries have to compete with these, not just a few pennies for a gold star.

22

I don’t see why vouchers are objectionable. They work, and work well. If a for-profit / non profit school chain, religious or private school can deliver higher quality services at the same or lower price, then they should get the business. We use private contractors for all sorts of services. Government run schools trend toward low quality and high cost because they are effective monopolies in most places. Most families cannot afford taxes and private schools

@cobrat , what you see in NYC is a massive misalllocation of public resources. The reason that Stuyvesant and other magnet high schools are so high performing is that they are the only affordable option for most NYC families and there is intense competition to be admitted there. Those schools also receive additional resources and attention while other schools languish and underperform. They also allow politicians to hold up there high performing students who move on to Ivy league schools while spending billions with their NEA friends.

What I find amazing is that my kid’s private HS costs about the same as NYC spends on the average pupil, when you consider capital costs. The education is better their that 99% of NYC schools. Even if you account for special education, it is still far too much money spent in the public sector for poor results.

23

States handle charter schools differently and fund them in different ways. Many are not corporate schools but schools founded by a group of parents or for a special educational focus (arts, languages, expeditionary learning, STEM). In a very simplified explanation of financing (because it is really complicated), each student gets so much money from the state (usually between $6000-$10,000, depending on the district and if the student has special needs) and that money follows the student, whether they choose to go to the assigned school, another school in the district, a public school in another district (we have open enrollment), or a magnet or charter school. The school where you are registered on Oct 1 gets the money. There was a program for a while with vouchers allowed to be used at private schools, but there were a lot of requirements, including that the assigned school had to be a failing school or in a failing district, and there had to be financial need (I don’t remember if it was qualifying for free lunch or another test). I think that program ended.

Here, charter schools ARE public schools. They run independently, can hire their own teachers who may not have to be certified (but usually are not union), but they do have to meet the education requirement (Colorado history in 4th grade, certain science and math in 5th grade, etc), they do have to meet IEPs for their students, they do have to accept a certain percentage of special ed students, they do have to file reports and statistics with the Dept of Ed.

24

I just want to interject, since charter schools were mentioned upthread, that charter schools are public schools. Now to what degree they’re run like non-charter public schools is a function of a given state’s enabling legislation (and they run the gamut from something like, say, Alaska’s, where charter schools are very similar to other public schools but with more curricular freedom, to Arizona’s, which is pretty much anything-goes). This means that any discussion of charter schools and their effects or efficacy is hampered by the fact that there is no one monolithic group of charter schools any more than regular public schools or private schools are monolithic groups.

25

At the headline level, that’s wonderful news. About time.

The candidates still have to be qualified, and that is a separate but important issue.

26

A name is missing from the list - Larry Arnn, President of Hillsdale College is also in running and supposedly is the favorite.

Someone really in the know told me three days that the issue with the others is that they are establishment too much for the President-Elect and needs to be really convinced to choose them. And the fact that the school newspaper reported the same means there is something to it because the school would not allow that to printed if not correct.

And, about 10 hours ago, the school newspaper confirmed what my source told me.

http://hillsdalecollegian.com/2016/11/trump-considering-arnn-secretary-education-speculation-increases-president-elect-fills-cabinet/

27

My problem with giving public funds to private schools is the lack of accountability both for education standards and financially, at least in my state. Private schools do not have to take the same exit tests that the public schools do and get bashed over. Public schools have to take all students within their district. They can’t cherry pick the good students. About 12% of our students are special needs - I don’t see the private schools accomendating them.

I think public money should only go to private schools if they are held to the same education standards, take all kids who apply or pick by lottery including special needs and students with disciplinary problems, and are accountable for all public funds. When this discussion has happened politically on a state level, the private schools do not want to be accountable, they only want the funds.

28

It looks like there is a lot of push-back against a Common Core Secretary of Education, so maybe it won’t happen:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/11/16/trump-a-common-core-foe-considering-core-supporters-for-education-secretary/?wpisrc=nl_sb_smartbrief

29

Never going to happen, and you know it. Nor should it. There are far, far more students coming out of colleges of education every year than coming out with programming degrees. At some point, the market sets value.

What is more, the idea that more money should be spent on teacher salaries because there is some type of teacher shortage is very much out dated, at least in large parts of the country. In my wife’s district, they routinely receive 40-50 applications per opening. This is not the 1970s anymore, and there are lots and lots of people willing to work at the current salary and benefit levels.

There may be an argument to raise salaries for particular sub sets of teachers, like foreign language or some of the STEM fields, but again that runs afoul of the current union position on salaries.

30

The question is not the number of applicants, but the number of highly QUALIFIED applicants. There could be a million not highly qualified applicants without this making a dent in the problem.

I’d like to see the cv’s of the 40-50 people willing to accept a starting teacher’s salary and benefits in a public school in ANY STEM subject.

31

@dfbdfb, excellent point about the vagaries of rules governing charter schools in the various states. A conservative would say that is how it is supposed to work, with the “laboratory of democracy and all”

32

I like it. She is intelligent and her parents valued education. Double plus.

33

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WOW! I am never happy to pay ANY TAX. Any. And most of my kids are in public schools.

You are happy to pay school tax, but you will not allow your children to attend public school? Wow.

34

Our public school get, approximately, $8,000 / pupil from state. This is one of the lowest in California. We have great students and high academic performance. Schools in LA get, approximately, $20,000 / pupil.

Private school, where my youngest is going, costs approximately, $12,000 / pupil.

Teacher’s salaries are much higher in public schools than in private.

It is not about the money.

35

The battle between Charter schools vs. Public is really a state level item. Don’t expect the federal government (under Trump) to get involved. They may be “supportive” of charter schools, but don’t expect much in the way of federal mandates or legislation. Also, whomever gets picked as Secretary of Education will have no impact on teachers pay.

Common core (and other Federal programs), on the other hand, will be impacted.

36

“WOW! I am never happy to pay ANY TAX. Any. And most of my kids are in public schools.”

@californiaaa, I’m not surprised.

I believe paying taxes is the price we pay for a civilized society.

“You are happy to pay school tax, but you will not allow your children to attend public school? Wow. Reminds me liberals, who write about inclusion, but afraid to use public transportation.”

I happen to live in the best school district in my area and pay $8k/yr in school tax. My son attended these schools from k-8 but we felt that a school with smaller class size would be better for him. His private school was more more of a diversied environment then the upper middle class, predominately white, school district I live in.

37

As a parent who has experience with traditional public schools, charter schools, AND private schools, I feel the need to comment.

(1) Charter schools ARE public schools. They are funded through public tax dollars. If the state allocates $6,892 per student, then the charter school receives $6,892 per student. The school doesn’t receive any extra money raised through the local millage.

(2) Private schools are funded by tuition. In the event of vouchers, public money “follows the child” so to speak. So, for example, if the state spends $6,892 per student, then $6,892 follows that student to the private school. If the private school costs $12,473, then the parents or the school antes up the rest.

In theory, you aren’t spending any more tax dollars per student than you would if that student attended a traditional, attendance-zone-based school.

(3) The quality of charter schools - and traditional local schools for that matter - are going to vary depending on area. In my city, there are some great zone schools where parents happily pay for overpriced homes in order to send their children there. There are also nightmarish zoned schools. In addition, there are a couple of fabulous charter schools and some not-so-great charter schools.

(4) Teachers’ unions like to compare charter school performance to their better traditional schools. But a better indicator as to why parents prefer charter and/or vouchers goes deeper than that. The district may have great schools overall, but if you are zoned for a bad school, you may feel that a charter school or voucher system is better for your child. It may not be a great charter school, but if it’s better than the alternative …

(5) The quality of teachers is going to vary from school to school, even in the same district. To compare the quality of teachers in a charter school to teachers in a private school to teachers in a traditional public school is unfair. I’ve seen teachers move from one to another, and they don’t suddenly become great teachers or poor teachers because of where they are - they were already that way.

Let’s be honest: Charter schools and vouchers exist in areas where quality public education for ALL STUDENTS is lacking. If you don’t like charter schools or vouchers, stop blaming them for your festering wounds and fix your own problems.

And, yes, even when we had children in private school and charter school, we still voted for local millages. (Note: We don’t have vouchers as an option.)

Regarding the candidates: You can’t blame someone for their spouse’s criminal behavior (unless that person aided and abetted). Yes, the Republican party in general is fond of paring down federal education mandates and giving states more control. BUT, this president is a bit unorthodox, and we really don’t know what he’s going to do.

38

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The average teacher’s salary in our school district is around $80,000 (I am too lazy to find the exact number). It is a very decent salary, plus job security, plus benefits. Many STEM graduates are happy to get such job.

39

First of all, a “qualified” candidate in a STEM field will not have a STEM degree. Holders of STEM degrees would not be “qualified” candidates in most states including my own. “Qualified” candidates would have a bachelor’s in education. Not sure how many employment options outside of teaching someone would have with a BSE in math education let’s say, especially given the benefits levels uniformly available in public schools. Certainly a kid with such a degree would face different job opportunities than someone with a BS in math. Again, there are far more kids coming out with BSE’s than there are those coming out with BS’s in Chemistry or Computer Science. To try and conflate the two is dinsingenuous.

Second, and building off of the first, what is a “competitive” salary in your idea of free college education in exchange for five years’ teaching? How do you determine a “competitive” salary in a market that requires a specialized degree? Are you willing to account for the $100,000 or so in tuition room and board benefits already received?

Lastly, if there is indeed a shortage of qualified high school algebra or chemistry teachers (for example), then common sense would argue that schools be permitted to offer greater compensation to young teachers in those fields over say young teachers with BSE’s in langauge arts or social studies. Which again gets us back to merit pay.

Sorry, but this is a long time hobby horse of mine. I have always thought that teachers are kind of caught in the middle. On the one hand, they are professionals, often with advanced degrees and specialized knowledge, which would argue for compensation and work enviornment based on their particular skills and output. On the other, they are members of one of the most robust unions, which seeks to treat all individual teachers as replacable cogs in the great machine. And yes, I understand the argument for the union and why job protection is important in an enviornment that is not out put dependant. It’s a tough place to be.

40

@californiaaa Yes, exactly, liberals are about choice and responsibility. I chose to send both my daughters to a small private school through 5th grade, and then they switched to the local public middle school and will both be in public through high school. I have never nor will I ever complain about paying taxes to support our public schools, nor would I ever support even a dollar of taxes going to pay for someone’s private school education.