<p>
</p>
<p>Well, it seems to be close to $4 per gallon now after a rapid rise in the last few weeks.</p>
<p>German cars typically rank high in the fun-to-drive category. I drove Audis for 18 years (BMWs before that) and they were great to drive but maintenance was a continuing headache.</p>
<p>I’m interested in the Venza for the space and the location of the dealer - it’s near where I work. There is a Subaru dealer in our area but it’s somewhat of a longer trip to get to. I’ve read that the Subaru’s aren’t that good on gas mileage.</p>
<p>I’m thinking maybe a C Class pre owned Mercedes<br>
(takes regular gas) but am leery of the maintenance issues and costs?</p>
<p>The only reason Subaru’s may not be as good on mileage would be because of their famed full-time all-wheel drive system. Most Toyotas or Hondas with AWD are really just FWD cars that turn on AWD when slippage is detected. The difference is about ~1 mpg city or highway. You can easily lookup official estimates for any particular model by going to its website.</p>
<p>I drove Audi Quattros in the past so I’m quite familiar with AWD systems. One of the cool things about AWD is how fast you can do a 180 in the snow. Gas mileage in the 5000Qs wasn’t very good but I’d blame the close-ratio 5-speed along with some slippage in the differentials.</p>
<p>I checked the Matrix, Sienna, Venza and Highlander. It appears that the Venza has automatic AWD while the others have full-time AWD. Do you have evidence to show that “most” Hondas and Toyotas have automatic instead of full-time?</p>
<p>The Subaru 2.5i 4-cylinder Outback gets better mpg than the 4-cylinder Venza. The Outback is rated 22/29, while the Venza is rated 21/27.</p>
<p>I purchased a 2011 4-cylinder Outback last summer. I’m getting about 27 mpg around home (suburbia) and 31-32+ on the highway. Many online reviewers report that they also get 30+ mpg on the highway.</p>
<p>My only complaint with the 4-cylinder Outback is the noise level. It’s quite a bit higher than the 6-cylinder model, but I opted for better mpg. The 4-cylinder Outback has plenty of pep.</p>
<p>We recently purchased a 2011 Audi Q5 2.0T 4-cylinder model, too. Its fuel economy isn’t as good as the Outback (only 20/27 mpg), but it drives like a dream.</p>
<p>Consumer Reports was reporting 30+ on the highway in its Outback testing, too. We’re looking at the 22/29 model.</p>
<p>We had a 2000 Honda CR-V til this summer that was full time FWD.</p>
<p>Actually, all three of the supposedly AWD cars you mentioned: Matrix, Sienna, and Highlander all are FWD cars standard. They could be purchased with a V6 engine upgrade (at expense of mileage) which come with the option of adding AWD. I looked them up, and in the case of the Matrix and the Sienna, they are indeed NOT full time AWD, but rather Active Torque Control systems. So of your list, only the Highlander even comes with the option of adding full time AWD.</p>
<p>Not to mention, you cherry picked a list of relatively big cars that wouldn’t be surprising if they were AWD cars anyways. But if you get down and actually do the apple-to-apple comparisons with cars that actually match up with equivalents, you’ll see that whereas all Subarus come with full time AWD (at the expense of gas mileage), the car for which Honda or Toyota has a directly competing equivalent to, will very often be better with mileage but coming with only FWD or a kick-in AWD.</p>
<p>You asked for “evidence”. Well then, I will open up three tabs of Toyota/Honda/Subaru web pages on my browser, and let us go through the entire Subaru lineup one by one.</p>
<p>In the compact category - the Imprezza comes with full time symmetrical AWD. The Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla are FWD.</p>
<p>For the performance compact - the Imprezza WRX is full time symmetrical AWD. The Honda Civic SI is, again FWD.</p>
<p>For midsize sedan - the Legacy is again AWD. The Accord and the Camry? Why FWD of course.</p>
<p>In the wagon category - the Outback is obviously symmetrical full time AWD. The Honda Accord Crosstour is FWD standard with real time AWD as an option. Same goes for the Toyota Venza, called Active Torque Control AWD.</p>
<p>In the compact SUV category - the Forester is duh, full time AWD. The Honda CR-V is yet again, standard FWD with available real time AWD. The Toyota Rav4 also is FWD, with available electronic on-demand 4WD.</p>
<p>We’ve reached the last category, the midsize SUV. The Subaru Tribeca is of course full time AWD. The Honda Pilot is again standard FWD, with available Variable Torque Management 4WD. The Toyota Highlander comes standard with FWD, with, FINALLY, an available full time AWD system available as an option with the 3.5 liter V6 engine upgrade.</p>
<p>So - there you have it! Of the ENTIRE Subaru lineup, NONE of the Honda or Toyota equivalents come standard with AWD, and in models in which the AWD or 4WD are offered, the ONLY ONE case where you can even get a fulltime system is the Highlander.</p>
<p>You posted this: Most Toyotas or Hondas with AWD are really just FWD cars that turn on AWD when slippage is detected.</p>
<p>Please redo your analysis based on your original statement; not your modified one.</p>
<p>You posted this: “I checked the Matrix, Sienna, Venza and Highlander. It appears that the Venza has automatic AWD while the others have full-time AWD. Do you have evidence to show that “most” Hondas and Toyotas have automatic instead of full-time?”</p>
<p>Please heed your own advice of making sure you “have evidence” before resorting to posting how you feel things “appear”. As it stands, I’ve already established that of your list, ONLY the Highlander even comes with real time AWD as an available option.</p>
<p>And fine - you want me to redo my analysis based on ONLY Toyota or Honda cars? Fine, I’m confident results will likely be similar. Let us go through the entire lineup of cars in production.</p>
<p>TOYOTA:
Yars, Corolla, Camry, Prius, Avalon: 2WD only
FJ Cruiser: 2WD, with optional part-time 4WD, and full-time 4WD on the V6 manual.
4Runner: 2WD, with optional part-time 4WD, and full-time on some trims.
Sequoia: 2WD, with optional part-time 4WD
Sienna: "
Tacoma: 2WD, with available part-time 4WD, full-time on some trims
Tundra: "
Land Cruiser: Full-time 4WD standard at last!</p>
<p>HONDA:
Accord, Civic, CR-Z, Fit, Insight, Odyssey: FWD
Crosstour: 2WD, with optional part-time 4WD
CR-V: "
Pilot: "
Ridgeline: Part-time 4WD</p>
<p>So a total of 22 vehicles examined. 21 come with standard 2WD. 11 offer the option of adding 4WD. Of those 11, only 4 are capable of full-time 4WD. Only 1 - the Toyota Land Cruiser comes with standard 4WD.</p>
<p>So there you have it. newccuser = 1. BCEagle91 = 0.</p>
<p>You posted this: Most Toyotas or Hondas with AWD are really just FWD cars that turn on AWD when slippage is detected.</p>
<p>Please redo your analysis based on your original statement; not your modified one.</p>
<p>Perhaps you missed this conclusion:</p>
<p>“So a total of 22 vehicles examined. 21 come with standard 2WD. 11 offer the option of adding 4WD. Of those 11, only 4 are capable of full-time 4WD. Only 1 - the Toyota Land Cruiser comes with standard 4WD.”</p>
<p>So in laymen’s terms: 11 cars in the current Honda and Toyota production lineup with 4/AWD capability, 4 are full-time, 7 are part-time, only turning on 4WD when needed. 7 is greater than 4, hence “most”.</p>
<p>newccuser = 2. BCEagle91 = 0.</p>
<p>You posted this: Most Toyotas or Hondas with AWD are really just FWD cars that turn on AWD when slippage is detected.</p>
<p>Please redo your analysis based on your original statement; not your modified one.</p>
<p>Perhaps you purposely chose to not read this conclusion, at the fear of being proven wrong:</p>
<p>“So a total of 22 vehicles examined. 21 come with standard 2WD. 11 offer the option of adding 4WD. Of those 11, only 4 are capable of full-time 4WD. Only 1 - the Toyota Land Cruiser comes with standard 4WD.”</p>
<p>So in laymen’s terms: 11 cars in the current Honda and Toyota production lineup with 4/AWD capability, 4 are full-time, 7 are part-time, only turning on 4WD when needed. 7 is greater than 4, hence “most”.</p>
<p>newccuser = 3. BCEagle91 = 0.</p>
<p>You posted this: Most Toyotas or Hondas with AWD are really just FWD cars that turn on AWD when slippage is detected.</p>
<p>Please redo your analysis based on your original statement; not your modified one. </p>
<p>Compare your statement to the original one…</p>
<p>Fine, if it is the terminology of of all-wheel-drive vs. front-wheel-drive vs. 4-wheel-drive vs. 2-wheel-drive that’s bugging you, I apologize. I acknowledge that not some of the 2wd cars may (have not looked up exactly which ones, if any) be rear-wheel-drive instead of front.</p>
<p>I will typically use FWD & 2WD interchangeably. Same with 4WD & AWD. The meaning, assumptions, and implications are clear. If someone wishes to be particularly semantic and/or specific about their usage, I will acknowledge that there are small differences, which do not change the context of what I was originally trying to convey: which was that it is true Subarus generally have slightly worse mileage, due to their entire lineup coming with full-time AWD/4WD. Most Honda and Toyota vehicles, on the other hand, do get better mileage, but in the cases when that have AWD/4WD, it is only a part-time system. When BCEagle asked for evidence of this, I then proceeded to prove this as being true - when examining the entire Honda and Toyota lineups - I found 11 vehicles to be offered with AWD/4WD capabilities, and only 4 having a full-time system available.</p>
<p>“Actually, all three of the supposedly AWD cars you mentioned: Matrix, Sienna, and Highlander all are FWD cars standard. They could be purchased with a V6 engine upgrade (at expense of mileage…”</p>
<p>Matrix is a hatchback version of Corolla, and V6 has never been offered as an option for Corolla/Matrix, unless, of course, things changed in the past couple of years.</p>
<p>You are correct. Actually - with the engine upgrade in the case of the Matrix, it’s a size one and not a cylinder one. It goes from 1.8 liter to 2.4 liter. The Sienna and the Highlander can be upgraded from, I believe a 2.4 liter V4 to a 3.5 liter V6. In any case - the point was neither the Sienna nor the Matrix had a full-time AWD, only a part-time AWD available as an option following an engine upgrade. (The Highlander does in fact offer an optional full-time AWD.)</p>
<p>I have had my Toyota Venza for 1 1/2 years. Though I like the looks and hauling capabilities, I would not buy it again. I bought the 4 cylinder version to be more fuel efficient. I hate the whine of the engine. The back blindsights are horrible when trying to lane change.</p>