<p>I know in Ohio a permit is req’d to carry a concealed weapon. That indicates it is legal to carry a nonconcealed weapon- as far as the concealed carry law goes. BUT there are other laws. A guy walking down sidewalk or in a dept store with a gun on his hip like in the cowboy movies would not be breaking concealed carry laws but might be charged with inciting a riot or inducing panic, or maybe even disturbing the peace. Not necessarily to say he’s doing any menacing moves(in my example) but I am picturing the ruckus that would likely be all around him. If I saw such a guy in my town, I would think he was a nut. What if he got angry? What if someone tried to take it away? What if a child grabbed at it thinking it a toy?</p>
<p>garland - you know what comes to mind? The ex-grad student who drove his car through the UNC Pit a few years ago in an attempt to mow down as many people as he could. </p>
<p>I never argued you could know the intention of a person carrying a holstered weapon, only that you can never know the intention of any person, even an ex-grad student driving a car. Assigning bad intentions or poor judgment only to gun owners isn’t logical.</p>
<p>Yes, I thought of that tragic incident, too. My point is that you do know one thing about a handgun carrier–that he/she has chosen to carry something meant only for one use–shoot people. Nothing else can be known, but that can be. It makes it qualitatively different from proximity to other potentially but not intentionally lethal objects.</p>
<p>We had a confrontation in a nearby city over this. A guy was walking to a meeting (I think a freedom group) and he was carrying a gun and walking from his car to the meetingplace. A police car saw him an pulled up to talk to him. He went to inform the officers that what he was doing was legal. His friends in the meeting came out and videotaped the encounter. It was a lot of time on the sidewalk and a lot of talking but nothing came of it.</p>
<p>I have been around guns all of my adult life and have a concealed carry permit. I have been in many situations where I know that others who are present are carrying a concealed handgun and in situations, in other states, where the law permitted open carrying without a permit and I was in the presence of many who were.</p>
<p>To answer the OP’s question, if in the presence of a person carrying a handgun, whether openly or concealed, I make note of the person, do a quick risk assessment based on body language and behavior and then decide whether to exit the area or not based on the circumstances. If I conclude there is no reason to exit, then I still keep track of the persons with the guns because regardless of their intentions, if an incident does occur and shots are fired, a bullet’s trajectory does not know the difference between friend and foe or innocent bystander and perpetrator. And unless I personally know the people who are carrying or know that they are cops, I would never assume that the person has the training, expertise and judgment to know when it is appropriate to draw a weapon or fire it (or perhaps more importantly how to avoid such situations), let alone the skill to hit the intended target. In most states, any idiot with a credit card can purchase a hand gun and in many states, obtaining a concealed carry permit is not much more difficult.</p>
<p>I have to comment, though, that not withstanding my comfort level, experience and training with hand guns, I have some very real reservations about civilians who openly carry hand guns in their day to day lives. It’s not like deciding what color tie, shirt or dress to wear that day (Should I wear my 9mm Smith and Wesson, my 40 caliber Glock or my 45 Ruger? Is this a revolver kind of day or a semi-automatic? :rolleyes: ) Putting aside those whose jobs might make it appropriate, carrying a handgun openly displayed in normal social and daily life activities is simply intended to send a message that the person is prepared to engage in lethal violence (regardless of the reality - see training and experience above). The fact that someone believes that they need to send that message - like at the supermarket or their kid’s Little League game - in my view brings into question their judgement and whether they really are able to differentiate between circumstances where it is or is not appropriate to draw a gun. It’s not like we live in the “old west” where law enforcement was remote, one often found oneself out in the wilderness, where a gun was a tool used in a myriad of life situations. Most of us live in cities or suburbs where there are well deployed law enforcement agencies, we get our food from stores and we don’t often encounter rattlesnakes around the campfires. Given the impact of the visual of carrying a hand gun openly, the “spectacle” that it is and the social impact that it has, I really have questions about the motivation and judgement of those who do.</p>
<p>Most of us live in cities or suburbs where there are well deployed law enforcement agencies, we get our food from stores and we don’t often encounter rattlesnakes around the campfires</p>
<p>Well it’s too cold for rattlesnakes anyway.
I know on TV shows- they can always tell a cop by looking at them- I don’t know if I would be able to do the same thing- but I would be a little nervous if I saw folks obviously packing- because that implies they are planning for a confrontation.
those things aren’t small and light as a cell phone- it’s heavy, you have to have a reason to carry it around- if it is concealed then you have to at least think before you get it out.</p>
<p>[Stay</a> Together, Carry a Gun, Protect the Hill - News - Seattle Weeklypage 1](<a href=“http://www.seattleweekly.com/2008-09-03/news/stay-together-carry-a-gun-protect-the-hill/]Stay”>Stay Together, Carry a Gun, Protect the Hill | Seattle Weekly)</p>
<p>We have had young people killed by handguns- some on purpose, some accidentally. I think the restriction and training required to carry a weapon should be higher. ( but then I also feel the same way about driver’s licenses)</p>
<p>I worry about gangs & getting caught in crossfire
as a young woman did a couple years ago waiting for a school bus in front of her high school .
[Northwest</a> Gangs](<a href=“http://www.nwgangs.com/king_county_1.html]Northwest”>http://www.nwgangs.com/king_county_1.html)</p>
<p>A remarkably civil discussion – maybe all the venom and scorn has been shipped off to the political forum? I’ll add some thoughts tonight when I have time, but “well done” to my fellow CCers.</p>
<p>“but I would be a little nervous if I saw folks obviously packing- because that implies they are planning for a confrontation.”</p>
<p>emeraldkity4, you raise an interesting point. I am convinced that for many people, whether conscious of it or not, carrying a hand gun changes their mindset from one of avoiding confrontations to one where they feel “prepared” to handle a confrontation and therefore are less focused on avoidance or even more inclined to engage. This can be subtle or it can be extreme; it can range from risk taking behavior such as walking at times and places one normally wouldn’t to a willingness to confront, such as flipping the driver who cut you off the finger or responding to the finger flipped at you, instead of just ignoring. Simply put, carrying a gun can make you feel powerful and empowered. Coupled with frustration or anger, it can literally be a lethal combination.</p>
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<p>I would enjoy my dinner or shopping experience even more knowing that if some lunatic decided then was a good time for a rampage then someone there would have the firepower to put a stop to it. I’m sure there are folks killed at companies and restaurants whose survivors only wish someone else there besides the nutjob had a loaded gun.</p>
<p>Who cares you have a right, and if people feel scared they can go rot.</p>
<p>Like other posters I’d make some quick assessment of the person and situation. If this happened in some small town in the mountains I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. If it happened in the middle of the big city I’d wonder why the person was carrying the gun. Although most off-duty cops, etc. I believe usually carry their weapon concealed, there may be other people who are carrying it because they’re carrying cash receipts, a load of jewelry (not likely into a restaurant), or some other legitimate reason. Realistically I realize that most criminal types would probably carry it concealed. I do think it would be odd for an average person to wander around in the big city with a gun strapped on and would wonder what’s up with the person.</p>
<p>In actuality I don’t recall having been in this situation very much. I have seen it a few times in smaller towns (sometimes hunters who don’t want to leave it in the car) but didn’t really worry about it. I also had a friend wearing one at an event when he was somehow designated ‘security’ (I know - a bit odd).</p>
<p>Like anything, most of us humans naturally look for unusual events in our immediate environment - especially those involving people. Anything out of the usual puts most of us on guard.</p>
<p>I have great respect for the wonderful CC community, and wouldn’t ask anyone to change their viewpoint on this topic. But since you asked the question, I’d have to say that after a serving a couple years in a combat zone, the sight of a holstered gun doesn’t bother me at all.</p>
<p>But since you asked the question, I’d have to say that after a serving a couple years in a combat zone, the sight of a holstered gun doesn’t bother me at all.</p>
<p>So are you saying that unusual circumstances in a different situation wouldn’t trigger your radar or you saying that you already know how you would react if the situation arose?</p>
<p>Gee, I’m glad that we don’t have that problem (yet) here in Texas - which most of you assume is the root of all gun madness… We have the right to concealed (with permit) handguns but <em>NOT</em> just an in-sight-plain-sight weapon that many states permit.</p>
<p>^ I was really quite surprised when I heard of Texas’ ban on open carry and how you can even be cited for printing - thats quite a bummer.</p>
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<p>Exactly! </p>
<p>Like many of you, I would take note of it and the person carrying, and then go about my business. </p>
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<p>The laws on carrying into a place where alcohol is served varies quite a bit state to state. Interestingly enough, in Virginia you are actually required to open carry in a restaurant serving alcohol - you cannot carry concealed.</p>
<p>Also, all this talk about open carrying being akin to disturbing the peace or inciting a riot is false - if something is legal, simply doing it can’t be the basis for breaking another law.</p>
<p>Open carry is legal in more places than you might think (even CA, with several restrictions). In many places, police dispatchers (rightfully) don’t even send police for calls about a man with a gun (assuming the report is just that they have a weapon and aren’t doing anything with it).</p>
<p>There is a world of difference between a combat zone or other militarized area where military and identifiable security personnel are carrying weapons amid civilians and “Joe and Josephine Six Pack” waltzing around the local supermarket, mall, restaurant or Little League field with guns strapped to their hips. Having been in the former, it’s expected and a necessity. The latter, however, would concern me.</p>
<p>And does any one really think that if a lunatic or terrorist starts shooting up the local mall that it enhances the safety and survival of bystanders if someone, whose “training” amounts to shooting at paper targets at the local gun club at 3 - 5 yards (typical civilian handgun combat range in the real world), engages the shooter in a fire fight in a crowded civilian area so that you have bullets flying from 2 directions instead of one? Or should they focus their efforts instead on helping people to flee and get out of the zone of fire. Just ask your local SWAT team what they think makes sense.</p>
<p>Let me guess Michael, you aren’t a member of the NRA?</p>
<p>It took me a bit to track this down but…</p>
<p>[Appalachian</a> School of Law shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting]Appalachian”>2002 Appalachian School of Law shooting - Wikipedia)</p>
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Interesting. I have heard about 2 dozen people who carry concealed state that when they are armed, they tend to be MORE careful about avoiding conflicts. They say that because they know they have the ability to use lethal force, they are even more aware of the need to avoid any situation which could escalate. (If you want to hear more from people who carry, you can visit 1911forums, The High Road, or the firingline forums. Most of the users are very polite, if insults aren’t used in the original post…speaking of which, I’m glad this conversation is staying polite!)</p>
<p>When I first learned of concealed carry (about a year ago), I was rather worried. The thing which got me to side in favor of CCW was an explanation by a trusted friend.<br>
He carries concealed whenever legal. I was rather shocked when he unlocked his holster and Springfield Xd from a safe in his car, to put it on! I was rather surprised the guy who I had never seen raise his voice, clench his fist, or EVER get into a remotely threatening situation would carry a gun (this guy is one of the most safety conscious, least aggressive people I know). He explained that he carries because he cannot know when something could go very wrong. He just wants to be able to defend himself, should someone else initiate a violent attack.</p>
<p>After a mass shooting was stopped at a local church (New Life Church) by a civilian with a legally concealed pistol, I started to think CCW might be a good idea (not just for my over-cautious friend). Somtime around then, I heard about Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. That idea worried me for a bit, until I did quite a bit of research. I learned just how uncommon it was for a licensed carrier to have their permit revoked, and how it was even more uncommon for them to commit a crime (much less a violent crime). Someone did a comparison and found that CCW carriers commit less crime than NYPD officers (and are statistically more accurate)! That pretty much sealed my opinion on licensed CCW. I am not aware of any study which proved CCW increased any crime rates (some found a correlation with reductions in crime).</p>
<p>I have only spotted one person who was carrying concealed, and he wasn’t trying very hard (in a very rural part of Colorado). If I see someone carrying (open carry included) I will usually make a quick judgement of them. If they are not suspicious looking or acting threateningly, I will treat them as I would any other person. It does not bother me, at all. (I have never run across any person whom I knew was carrying who acted threateningly or suspiciously.)</p>
<p>[Toting</a> gun at soccer costs mom her permit | Wilkes-Barre News | The Times Leader](<a href=“http://www.timesleader.com/news/Toting_gun_at_soccer_costs_mom_her_permit_09-24-2008.html]Toting”>http://www.timesleader.com/news/Toting_gun_at_soccer_costs_mom_her_permit_09-24-2008.html)</p>
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<p>Legal issues aside, the idea that someone can and would bring a gun to a children’s soccer game sends chills through me.</p>
<p>Why does that scare you?</p>
<p>Is wanting to protect yourself and your children poor judgement? Do you feel that simply having a gun is poor judgement, or that actually carrying it is?</p>