Harvey Mudd is in same place as scripps …neighbors. No need to change place. But No financial aid for 5th year and one more extra year learning dunno what is an issue.
The “2” in this case is at Harvey Mudd, which is adjacent to Scripps, so this part of the 3+2 is less of a concern.
But other disadvantages like extra year of costs (plus it being more expensive to start with) and needing to meet admission requirements to the “2” school apply. Also, does Harvey Mudd require the extensive core curriculum for 3+2 students?
I’ll echo what the others are saying. As long as your daughter likes Case and it’s affordable (both things sound like they’re true), it’s Case, hands-down.
For employability: Engineering degree >>> Neuroscience degree.
For engineering degree options: 4-year ABET-accredited program >>> 3+2 program.
Neuroscience at UCLA is excellent, of course. But neuroscience degrees don’t open doors job-wise. An ABET engineering degree from anywhere will be way more employable.
FWIW, I know several neuro researchers at Case, including within engineering. There’s plenty of that work going on there. There should be no hesitation with quality of work there.
In summary: if your child wants to work in neuro-engineering, Case is the best of the options you presented.
That said, she doesn’t need to limit herself to biomedical engineering as a major. The nice thing about Case is that she doesn’t have to decide right away. Other options that I would recommend for this field include mechanical engineering and electrical engineering, and those typically have better job prospects than biomedical engineering, with fewer intense premeds. I’d only recommend a neuroscience degree for someone who is positive they’ll go to med school or grad school.
ETA: you should also know that Mudd, while a fantastic school, only offers a general engineering degree. That may matter to your kid.
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I think students need to satisfy core curriculum in physics, math, chem etc before they join Harvey Mudd. That would be less of a concern she has finished calculus series, ap chem and ap physics c (mechanics and E&M). She could try and finish core requirements for Bioengineering at UCLA but given that getting prereq courses at UCLA is so hard to enroll, I don’t know if taking additional engg courses even if she doesnt change major is possible. She has set her mind on a PhD, so if she can do few engg courses (signal processing, maetrial science etc) in her junior/senior year or masters thats fine too.
In theory, one more year of expense and one less year of income.
But for the student who is ok with both, maybe no issue?
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Expense without financial aid is not ok. Because scripps only guarantees financial aid for 4 years. Their cost of attendance is insane 90k and she got 30k in grants (just received it few hours ago). Fafsa is not yet processed but based on CSS profile she submitted thats what she got and there is no way we can afford over 40k a year max (inclusive of everything), so more i think, scripps is out of the way.
Yes her interest currently is in neuroscience + wet lab research + electrical engineering + probably an elective in material science. For some reason she doesnt like computer science much.
That’s great that she knows this already. If this was my kid, I would give her this advice: try a major in electrical engineering. Supplement with biomedical/neuro courses in whatever way is practical. Get involved in neuro research and try to do it all 4 years. Hustle to get summer internships.
At Case you can minor in biomedical engineering but not neuroscience. A formal minor won’t matter, so she should just take whatever courses she wants to supplement.
At the end of this, she’ll 1) have a great education in neuro-engineering, and 2) be nicely employable with her EE degree and internship experience, even if she doesn’t get into a neuro job right away.
A PhD is unnecessary and grueling in this field. If she decides to pursue that later for the pure joy of it, great. But if she thinks she might like to go straight into work, she should shoot for a job after graduation.
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Thank you so much. Best advice. I agree 100%.
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Looks like CWRU appears to be the preferable one:
- Scripps is probably too expensive.
- UCLA is more limited in being able to change into an engineering major.
The student does need to plan first year courses to work toward all possible majors in order to preserve options. For example, there may be different physics courses for engineering versus biology majors, but biology usually accepts the engineering version while engineering usually does not accept the biology version.
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These are all good options! That being said, I would not let the price dissuade you from Scripps yet. LACs are much easier to negotiate financial aid packages with typically, a side product of having more personal attention, and I’ve heard stories from other Claremonts of seemingly impossible costs being surmounted after a Zoom meeting and some emails with the financial aid department.
My advice to you is to reach out to their financial aid department, demonstrate the better offers elsewhere, and state that they remain your daughter’s first choice if there was any way they could match or partially match the other offers. No guarantee of success, but always worth trying.
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When you visit Scripps on admitted students’ day, try to talk directly with the HMC engineering department head or find the prof coordinating the 2 portion of the 3-2 to get the HMC side of the requirements and expectations. What are their success stories with the 3-2 program?
Since she can cross-register, can she start taking some of the HMC engineering coursework early?
Take a look at the HMC engineering clinic program, since that is required in the Sr year for all engr students.
Look at the engr faculty profiles to see if there is research being conducted that is of interest to her.
If she is a hand-on type, try to get a tour of the new maker space at Mudd. I heard a report that Scripps students are the largest bloc of non-HMCer’s that use that facility.
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Scripps students can register for the Engineering Design sequence that begins with their famous E4 class (in which students do machine shop fabrication projects culminating in designing and fabricating their own keepsake hammer). This is almost certainly a requirement for the 3:2 degree, so taking it early, as Mudd students do, would be smart. But it’s not biomedical (or even EE) oriented at all. (At any rate, it sounds like the Scripps/Mudd option is off the table for financial reasons, but just for the information of other readers.)
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It doesn’t sound as if the assertion that they’re the first choice would be truthful. And further, nothing negotiated with the Scripps financial aid office would be binding on Mudd, which explicitly isn’t offering aid for the fifth year. In this case, I would absolutely let price (and other factors) dissuade this family.
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Price can dissuade, of course, but it’s always best to take the opportunity to see how set in stone the price is. It seems the student would also love CWRU and that’s an amazing choice as well, I just want to encourage folks to look into the aid before immediately ruling things out.
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I definitely agree, in principle. But one needs to assess whether the gap is realistically close-able. In this case, the OP is reporting that Scripps offered 30K merit - that’s their top scholarship, but with current COA, the remaining balance is well over 50K/year. No negotiation is going to produce more than their maximum merit award. And no negotiation is going to produce a net price under 40K via need-based aid, when the family doesn’t qualify for that. (And that’s all prior to the transfer to HMC and the fifth year with no aid.)
So, I’m all for “you don’t know 'til you ask” but I’m also all for choosing one’s battles. This isn’t a winnable one, IMO.
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I also endorse the “ask respectfully” strategy. But asking for an additional 3K (which STILL won’t be affordable for this family) vs. asking to close a gap this big? Very, very unlikely.
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That makes sense! Also, reading through the thread, the student seems like she’d as happy at CWRU anyways, and I also doubt $30,000 is ever made up.
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Piling on: academically and financially, Case makes the most sense.
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My D joined UC Berkeley, BioE major. She also got into UCLA and cornell but finally she decided on Berkeley. If she wouldn’t have gotten into these she would have chosen Case. UC Berkeley also is the least cost for us as its in-state.
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