Casey Anthony?

<p>I apologize for any offensive thing I may have said and I will accept that you did not intend what I inferred…</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>Though I stick by the emotional response. Not yours particularly but the majority.</p>

<p>“Emotions have been described as sets of beliefs and desires (Marks 1982), affect-laden judgments (Broad 1971; Lyons 1980), and as complexes of beliefs, desires, and feelings (Oakley 1992).”</p>

<p>Beliefs and emotions have always been inextricably linked and emotions and rationality are inversely proportional. This would explain why the large proponent of those calling for things like Caylee’s Law and those picketing outside the court house and those insisting that justice wasn’t served are from one specific demographic.</p>

<p>XSlacker, apology accepted. </p>

<p>I don’t see the push for Caylee’s Law as based on emotion so much. It is a law that makes sense and this case points it out. This woman went free, yet she did some egregious things that are facts at this point. She did not report a missing (Caylee wasn’t truly missing) or dead child in a timely fashion. This should be required to do. In this particular case, much time was lost in the following days in terms of finding Caylee (well, her body in this case). This period of time is crucial in both missing child cases, but also in investigating suspicious deaths. I think this is a rational law and not just an emotional one.</p>

<p>Whether you believe Casey to be guilty of murder or not, she did engage in wrongdoing by not reporting her missing or dead child.</p>

<p>But it does seem that the nature of her lies were an obstruction of justice. Also, what about improper disposal of a body? Isn’t that a crime too?</p>

<p>Exactly!!!</p>

<p>And…YES…it would have been a very good thing if she had been charged with improper disposal of the body and found guilty of that because that would have indicated that they didn’t believe the outrageous and unbelievable lie that George found the body and tossed it.</p>

<p>And…Caylee’s law is needed. It’s not emotional, it’s common sense. It wasn’t needed before because no one had ever used such a crazy story for a defense and was acquitted.</p>

<p>But, now that some defense attys will likely use that defense in the future, there needs to be laws that will, at least, make not reporting the death of a child or a missing child a felony.</p>

<p>Like I said before, Scott Peterson wants a do-over with the claim that Laci was never missing…she just drowned in the SF Bay.</p>

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<p>I signed the petition in my state actually. I’m human… I’m not immune to emotional responses. ;)</p>

<p>“I respect the system, but I question how well it works in anything but slam dunk simple cases. (Of course, the OJ trial shows us that they can screw those up too. )” The problem with that is that juries have gotten ‘slam dunk simple’ cases totally right according to most people, and then we find out that more then likely an innocent person was convicted. I suspect most slam dunk cases never make it to trial, the lawyers and prosecutors probably plea bargain them not to waste court time.</p>

<p>" I don’t think the average juror is capable of figuring out sophisticated, complicated cases. "</p>

<p>That could be, though I also will add maybe the problem is that prosecutors an lawyers in general don’t know how to explain their sophisticated cases correctly (and maybe it in fact is impossible). In The OJ case, they had jurors who said about the DNA evidence linking him to the crime scene, that blood type could be any of millions of people, when the experts said that the odds of someone having a dna match the same as Simpson’s was millions to one. I think part of the problem is that cases have become sophisticated, in a white collar crime case, like investment fraud and the like, you are talking very complex situations where jurors are expected to weight the evidence of experts who often talk in jargon, and you have experts seeming to contradict each other, and it is very hard for juries to figure it out.</p>

<p>Juries are all too human. Others are correct that juries are not supposed to take the possible penalties into account, any more then they are not supposed to take sympathy or disdain for the defendant into account, but they do. I wasn’t aware the jury had other options open in terms of what they could vote to convict on, from the law professor’s argument I thought they only could deliberate on murder 1. It could be the professor was arguing that even though other options were open, the prosecutor seeking the death penalty makes a jury a lot more reluctant to convict, those were his words, not mine.</p>

<p>Someone I think quoted another NY Times article (it was about the two cops in NYC charged with raping a drunk young woman after taking her back to her apartment, and going back several times) and what it said was that juries these days more and more expect physical evidence when convicting. The cop case was similar to Casey’s, I think most people, other then the PBA, believed the cops were guilty as charged (basically, the cops lied about what they had done that night, falsified logs, and the cop went back 3 times to the apartment, and even admitted lying with the woman in the bed…), but the jury refused to convict because there was absolutely no physical evidence of sexual intercourse (there was evidence admitted about the state of the women’s vaginal canal, but there were experts for the defense who said it didn’t prove there had been sexual contact), same kind of circumstantial case. </p>

<p>I kind of wonder is with the abundance of shows like CSI and with all the cases of defendants let off death row or jail because of DNA evidence if they aren’t now expecting physical evidence since on tv they always find the evidence, etc…</p>

<p>The problem is, what do you replace it with? Professional juries, besides the cost, could be subject to political pressure, their salaries, their ratings, would come from the state, and for example, jurors could be fired if some governor or whatever didn’t like a verdict or if a juror hung a jury. Given the cost cutting mood our governments are in, how would a professional jury system happen?</p>

<p>Judges doing trials can be even worse, the jury system came about because judges are generally political figures who are in many cases faced with being re-elected. Suppose a judge let off a vile murder suspect in a bench trial, one most people considered guilty, think he wouldn’t realize that could be the end of his career? (This has happened, btw, it isn’t that uncommon).</p>

<p>Personally, i think with the Jury system that people need training. Once upon a time, before bean counters and the 3rs crowd came along, they used to have courses in school called civics, that talked about the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen, that grounded people in how things work. Maybe we should have something like that in school, where young adults in high school learn about the jury system and what it takes to be a juror, about what things like reasonable doubt mean, what they are supposed to do. I know from my experience on jury duty, they usually show some idiotic video on being a juror that is next to useless…</p>

<p>Is the jury system flawed? Yes, it is, but it to me is kind of like what Churchill said of capitalism, it is the worst economic system around, except when compared to the rest of them:)</p>

<p>Have prosecution or defense attorneys or anyone else ever addressed why Lee Anthony was never asked on the witness stand if he had sexually abused/molested Casey?</p>

<p>[Chapter</a> 843 OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE](<a href=“Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2010->Chapter 843][b]Chapter : Online Sunshine”>Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2010->Chapter 843 : Online Sunshine)

  • 843.01 Resisting officer with violence to his or her person.
  • 843.02 Resisting officer without violence to his or her person.
  • 843.021 Unlawful possession of a concealed handcuff key.
  • 843.025 Depriving officer of means of protection or communication.
  • 843.03 Obstruction by disguised person.
  • 843.04 Refusing to assist prison officers in arresting escaped convicts.
  • 843.05 Resisting timber agent.
  • 843.06 Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers.
  • 843.08 Falsely personating officer, etc.
  • 843.081 Prohibited use of certain lights; penalty.
  • 843.085 Unlawful use of police badges or other indicia of authority.
  • 843.0855 Criminal actions under color of law or through use of simulated legal process.
  • 843.09 Escape through voluntary action of officer.
  • 843.10 Escape by negligence of officer.
  • 843.11 Conveying tools into jail to aid escape; forcible rescue.
  • 843.12 Aiding escape.
  • 843.13 Aiding escape of juvenile inmates of correctional institutions.
  • 843.14 Compounding felony.
  • 843.15 Failure of defendant on bail to appear.
  • 843.16 Unlawful to install or transport radio equipment using assigned frequency of state or law enforcement officers; definitions; exceptions; penalties.
  • 843.165 Unauthorized transmissions to and interference with governmental and associated radio frequencies prohibited; penalties; exceptions.
  • 843.167 Unlawful use of police communications; enhanced penalties.
  • 843.17 Publishing name and address of law enforcement officer.
  • 843.18 Boats; fleeing or attempting to elude a law enforcement officer.
  • 843.19 Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses.
  • 843.20 Harassment of participant of neighborhood crime watch program prohibited; penalty; definitions.

[ul]843.21 Depriving crime victim of medical care.[/ul]</p>

<p>[837.05 False</a> reports to law enforcement authorities. Official Proceedings Only](<a href=“Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine False”>Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine)

  • Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever knowingly gives false information to any law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of any crime, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[ul]Whoever knowingly gives false information to a law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of a capital felony, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.[/ul]</p>

<p>[837.012 Perjury</a> when not in an official proceeding. Unofficial Proceeding(I.E. Interrogation)](<a href=“Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine Perjury”>Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine)

  • Whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath, not in an official proceeding, in regard to any material matter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[ul]Knowledge of the materiality of the statement is not an element of this crime, and the defendant’s mistaken belief that his or her statement was not material is not a defense.[/ul]</p>

<p>LOLOL… Take a look at the statutes.</p>

<p>1) She DIDN’T obstruct justice by FLORIDA’s definition of it.
2) Interrogations are not considered official proceedings. Conviction is required for second part. Only a misdemeanor.
3) Improper disposal of a body is only a misdemeanor and not even listed in the criminal code but instead in the administrative code…</p>

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<p>Hmmm. I’m not sure many judges are elected. I believe many are appointed. I’m not an authority on the subject. However, my sibling is the director of his state’s judiciary council and they are charged with nominating judicial applicants. Their nominations go to the governor who appoints the judges. My sibling also was formerly a judge and he was appointed in the same way. He was not elected.</p>

<p>However, I do believe that voters vote whether to retain a judge after a certain term period. The judicial council evaluates the performance of judges due to appear on the ballot for retention and recommends to the public whether each judge should be retained.</p>

<p>Forgot one…</p>

<p>837.055 False information to law enforcement during investigation.

[ul]Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.[/ul]</p>

<p>Still just a misdemeanor…</p>

<p>So she is only guilty of a misdemeanor. In my state driving over 80mph is a misdemeanor. Not a big deal…</p>

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<p>All judges in Florida are elected except Supreme Court Justices and Judges of the District Court of Appeal.</p>

<p>[Frequently</a> Asked Questions - Florida Division of Elections - Department of State](<a href=“http://election.dos.state.fl.us/gen-faq.shtml#link5]Frequently”>http://election.dos.state.fl.us/gen-faq.shtml#link5)</p>

<p>Well, then it works differently in various states as I explained how it works in my brother’s state as this is exactly what he does.</p>

<p>Anyone who has been in a mediation that lasted 10, 11 hours will confirm that in that amount of time you can cover a lot of ground —over and over and over again. I read that the murder vote was 10 to 2 to acquit. Once an intent to kill gets discarded, the duct tape would seem to have to be disregarded since it infers (if anything) intent.</p>

<p>So, deliberation of the 6 to 6 manslaughter vote was left with --what? The google search on chloroform? The other searches infer (if anything) murder, which had already been disregarded. I imagine that people who have googled would find it hard to accept that everything you search online you intend to make or do or visit. Same thing with grief–some do go out and get drunk. The tatoo? Why is it evidence of consciousness of guilt rather than a tat in memory of Caylee? Are all these circumstances really the human experience and evidence of “culpable negligence” beyond a reasonable doubt?</p>

<p>It is interesting that NOW there is a lot of discussion of other offenses that could have/should have been charged. If you read online news sourses from England and around the world, they have been critical of the prosecution before the verdict.</p>

<p>I did read that the polls show that females are vastly more sure Casey got away with murder than males. But 1/3 of the people polled agreed that she could not be convicted of murder. Here on CC we’ve been micro-discussing the evidence and I haven’t seen a lot of opinions shift. So, how long would have been “long enough” to deliberate? Three days, a week? Or, just however long it took to convict her?</p>

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<p>I’d have to say that if I’d been on this jury, we would have had a hung jury.</p>

<p>Have prosecution or defense attorneys or anyone else ever addressed why Lee Anthony was never asked on the witness stand if he had sexually abused/molested Casey?</p>

<p>Yes!!!</p>

<p>Judge Perry asked Baez that question DIRECTLY. Baez said that he didn’t ask for “strategic reasons” (cough he didn’t want Lee to say no on the stand cough)</p>

<p>*•843.06 Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers.
*</p>

<p>She did that.</p>

<p>Depriving crime victim of medical care</p>

<p>She did that…she didn’t call 911…she’s not a MD…she had no proof that Caylee couldn’t have been saved.</p>

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<p>And, the prosecution’s reason?</p>

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<p>Casey may not hate her brother who is less than 5 years older than her.</p>

<p>m2ck— what are the elements of those 2 offenses you referenced, if you know?</p>

<p>omg…can you imagine if we were the jury LOL</p>

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<p>Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers.—Whoever, being required in the name of the state by any officer of the Florida Highway Patrol, police officer, beverage enforcement agent, or watchman, neglects or refuses to assist him or her in the execution of his or her office in a criminal case, or in the preservation of the peace, or the apprehending or securing of any person for a breach of the peace, or in case of the rescue or escape of a person arrested upon civil process, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.</p>

<p>Maybe you missed the part in government class where people don’t have to assist the police in building cases against themselves?</p>

<p>That’s why, if I were to kidnap you, and the police arrested me and I refused to help them all they could charge me with is kidnapping. Even if you died it would only be kidnapping and murder. Not " Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers."</p>

<p>Remember this little bit? You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law… Suspects do not ever have to say one word to help the police. </p>

<p>She can’t be charged with not helping. Only the false statements statute which is just a misdemeanor.</p>

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<p>Nope, if the “victim” is already dead it becomes a moot point. Plus the word is DEPRIVING. This would be like me taking your cell phone when you are bleeding to death and throwing it away. <- THAT would be a crime. There is no actual law forcing anyone to call 911. I could watch you bleeding to death, laugh and walk on home and they can’t touch me.</p>

<p>Not that I would do that but I COULD…</p>

<p>Some of you are really reaching on this…</p>

<p>*Have prosecution or defense attorneys or anyone else ever addressed why Lee Anthony was never asked on the witness stand if he had sexually abused/molested Casey?</p>

<p>Yes!!!</p>

<p>Judge Perry asked Baez that question DIRECTLY. Baez said that he didn’t ask for “strategic reasons” (cough he didn’t want Lee to say no on the stand cough) </p>

<p>And, the prosecution’s reason?</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>The prosecution’s position was that it wasn’t true and wasn’t relevant…so why open the door for the defense to further explore. </p>

<p>xslacker…Casey was not a suspect when she provided wrong info. she was saying that her D was MISSING and was providing info that she sssaid would help them. As far as the cops were concerned, she was a parent with a missing child. She could have chose to say NOTHING.</p>

<p>*There is no actual law forcing anyone to call 911. I could watch you bleeding to death, laugh and walk on home and they can’t touch me.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Not when it’s your MINOR aged CHILD and you are the adult in charge of watching them. The same would go for a teacher or daycare worker who is acting in loco parentis.</p>

<p>Yes…a PARENT has a legal obligation to seek medical care for her child…and call 911. A parent can’t just say…well, she looks like she’s dead…so I won’t seek help. She’s not a doctor. She can’t determine her child is dead.</p>

<p>For me, the most frustrating thing about this case is that the delay in finding the body, caused by Casey, could have made it possible for her to get away with, at least, child abuse or neglect. Imagine if the body had been found sooner and Xanax had been detected.</p>

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<p>It would seem that to know the allegation of the brother’s sexual abuse was not true, the prosecution would have had to ask Casey’s brother if he had abused her before his trial testimony, so they knew the answer before his trial testimony. Then why not ask him to confirm “no abuse?” </p>

<p>The prosecution followed up on other defense issues such as Cindy’s employment records to show she was at work when some of the google searches occured. After she testified that she did the searches they brought in the company’s comupter log records to further discredit her. Isn’t that correct??</p>

<p>“Further explore??” I thought the defense had not explored it at all, so what could the defense do that would constitue “further explore,” other than ask the brother, which they had decided not to do? I saw an interview with Casey’s attorney Hansen who speculated that it was possible that Casey and her brother might be able to have some future contact, but not so with the parents. I can see that they may have been sibling co-survivors of the family environment.</p>

<p>It is going to be interesting if (when) all the Caylee’s laws pass. I guess it will actually have mixed results. If a parent has freaked and not reported a missing child within 48 hours, I guess this will provide incentive to further delay/never report the child missing and dream up a lie about when was the last time they saw the child. </p>

<p>The police’s failure to respond to the three calls the meter guy had made months before they decided to check it out has been another sourse of criticism of the State’s efforts by foreign media. It seems to be getting more play in the US now that the “slam dunk” failed to score the desired points.</p>